H_B Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Oh, and with specific reasons why they were "bad things". Not just "Uhh... Family Tax Credits are evil". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Actually, perhaps you need to provide some proof relating to your frankly crazy hatred of Labour under Blair and Brown. Blair won 3 elections. Are you saying the public was duped for 10 years? There's a reason Labour won those latter two elections (particularly the latter two - the first one wasn't really in doubt) - the public were satisfied with their spell in charge. Dodgy dossier anyone? The public are fairly easy to dupe if you have the right spin doctors and a cozy relationship with newspaper oligarchs. But hey ho they won two elections so all is fine with democracy in Britain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 But hey ho they won two elections so all is fine with democracy in Britain. Well, three elections actually. Blair won a third election even after the "dodgy dossier" was public knowledge and opinion had turned against the Iraq war. If they were this evil empire that achieved nothing in their 15 years then they wouldn't have won 3 elections. There's a lot of rewriting of history from morons about the NL period. Were they perfect? Far from it. Did they achieve anything? Absolutely. Should they have achieved more? Absolutely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Oh, and with specific reasons why they were "bad things". Not just "Uhh... Family Tax Credits are evil". Tax Credits, illegal war, pilfering pensions, the banking crisis etc etc etc. There are plenty of posts from me about Tax Credits, I've not witnessed a single word from yourself disputing any of it, it ain't cool to pretend I've not provided any thought to it, it's your MO right enough. You give reasons why Blair and Brown were good for the UK and why they merited your vote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Tax Credits, illegal war, pilfering pensions, the banking crisis etc etc etc. Oh, and with specific reasons why they were "bad things". Not just "Uhh... Family Tax Credits are evil". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Oh, and with specific reasons why they were "bad things". Not just "Uhh... Family Tax Credits are evil". You go and find my thoughts on Tax Credits, a wee critique will be fine then we can move on to the next one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 You go and find my thoughts on Tax Credits, a wee critique will be fine then we can move on to the next one. No - you've made the claim - you provide the "evidence". Specifically, what was bad about "tax credits". In your own time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 You give reasons why Blair and Brown were good for the UK and why they merited your vote. I might go swimming in the morning, and on the way I'll drive past a new school built under Labour. When I was 10, my class of 39 had to be split between 4 other schools in the town for over a month because my school had such little investment into it it was literally rotten. Waiting times in hospitals were reduced. Look at the centres of Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow now compared to pre-97. They're like night and day. As has been said, they weren't perfect and could have done more, but I can easily see why people voted for them. I've been old enough to vote twice at General Elections. 2005 and 2010. Voted Labour both times. They aren't perfect and I don't always agree with them, but the alternatives were worse IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Their policies were shite because they were too left-wing. Blair and Brown revitalised the party, made us electable and brought us to government. They saved the party. Everything. Blair and Brown got on with the job and did good, rather than the Skinners in the party who are happy to sit in opposition feeling good about themselves. Comprising your principals so the party can get elected is bollox IMO. I despise Labour after they decided to become "new labour" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1974h Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Me too. New labour was like some kind of Orwellian prophecy. And an epitome of what's wrong with today's society. It was a "brand" and the doublespeak that originated in George Orwells book 1984. More doublespeak is david Cameron's big society. Aye right enough david ya fuckin arsehole. Anybody with half a brain cell could tell it was a PR offensive to distant himself from thatchers "there is no such thing as society". The big society sounds like a socialist idea. But in fact what Cameron had in store with his cut backs and his reduction of the state. Was the exact opposite. Yip doublespeak in its purest form. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I might go swimming in the morning, and on the way I'll drive past a new school built under Labour. When I was 10, my class of 39 had to be split between 4 other schools in the town for over a month because my school had such little investment into it it was literally rotten. Waiting times in hospitals were reduced. Look at the centres of Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow now compared to pre-97. They're like night and day. As has been said, they weren't perfect and could have done more, but I can easily see why people voted for them. I've been old enough to vote twice at General Elections. 2005 and 2010. Voted Labour both times. They aren't perfect and I don't always agree with them, but the alternatives were worse IMO. Centre of Baghdad ain't that clever though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eindhovendee Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I might go swimming in the morning, and on the way I'll drive past a new school built under Labour. When I was 10, my class of 39 had to be split between 4 other schools in the town for over a month because my school had such little investment into it it was literally rotten. Waiting times in hospitals were reduced. Look at the centres of Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow now compared to pre-97. They're like night and day. As has been said, they weren't perfect and could have done more, but I can easily see why people voted for them. I've been old enough to vote twice at General Elections. 2005 and 2010. Voted Labour both times. They aren't perfect and I don't always agree with them, but the alternatives were worse IMO. Manchester city centre had the biggest peacetime bomb go off which sparked a rebuild. I'm not sure Blair and Brown can take much credit for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Fair enough, but there was massive regeneration in a lot of other cities too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy1970 Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Regeneration via PPI so we'll all be paying for it for ever more. New Labour took the dodgy Tory policy of PPP and somehow made it even worse. Back on topic, Benn is a great political hero of mine. I had the privilege of hearing him speak a few times, and he was a superb orator, passionate and erudite. The first political books I read were his Arguments for Socialism & Arguments for Democracy when I was at secondary school. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Fair enough, but there was massive regeneration in a lot of other cities too. That nice new school was probably financed by PFI Wonga. Regeneration probably financed by PFI Wonga. The NHS bill trebled in 13 years. Edited March 16, 2014 by ayrmad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) So, when are we going to open our eyes? Privatisation is here to stay. Gas, electric, British Airways, British Telecom, Royal Mail, British Rail, Water boards, etc etc etc.All driven from further afield than London. Is the NHS next? http://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/ashman/nhs-must-be-exempted-from-useu-free-trade-agreement Edited March 16, 2014 by Tryfield 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 So, when are we going to open our eyes? Privatisation is here to stay. Gas, electric, British Airways, British Telecom, Royal Mail, British Rail, Water boards, etc etc etc. All driven from further afield than London. Is the NHS next? http://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/ashman/nhs-must-be-exempted-from-useu-free-trade-agreement You know what to do then Eric, IMO an independent Scotland would leave the EU rather than privatise the NHS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 You know what to do then Eric, IMO an independent Scotland would leave the EU rather than privatise the NHS. I don't think the SNP or whoever is in charge of us in an independent Scotland would dare piss off the EU or Yanks. The National Health Service will eventually get done away with, no mistake about that. Health care and pharmaceutical firms wield too much power. There is too much cash involved to let it get swallowed up by bad administration, poor care, legal claims and waste when a private mob can move in and turn a profit. Maybe Obamacare was the giant leap these massive companies needed to make the break through. Who knows. The NHS's days are numbered as far as I can see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) I don't think the SNP or whoever is in charge of us in an independent Scotland would dare piss off the EU or Yanks. The National Health Service will eventually get done away with, no mistake about that. Health care and pharmaceutical firms wield too much power. There is too much cash involved to let it get swallowed up by bad administration, poor care, legal claims and waste when a private mob can move in and turn a profit. Maybe Obamacare was the giant leap these massive companies needed to make the break through. Who knows. The NHS's days are numbered as far as I can see. Their days being numbered will have nothing to do with what's best and everything to do with politicians and their pals profiteering. Edited March 16, 2014 by ayrmad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 God bless Benn, Foot and the others. They gave us 18 years of Conservative Government. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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