Baxter Parp Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I rather simplistically expected them to serve the member's best interests, like chasing a pay rise after four barren years and, like the DWP should have, stayed neutral on such a divisive and emotive issue. They're not allowed to do that sort of stuff anymore. Thatcher saw to that, Blair agreed. They're still allowed to recommend how you vote though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 It quite clearly is, whether you are willing to accept that is a different matter of course. You expect the union to "serve the member's best interests" yet want them to remain neutral on a subject which will affect their members. That is a contradiction. No, that's a matter of opinion, and the union is made up of differing opinions, that's why they should have taken a neutral stance and allowed the electorate to decide. Well at least you are half right. That's a start. A union is a government body? Is that so? In this case it is a union for a governmental body. Well at least you are half right. That's a start. Changed your mind on the DWP then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 They're not allowed to do that sort of stuff anymore. Thatcher saw to that, Blair agreed. They're still allowed to recommend how you vote though. I never said they weren't allowed to, I merely questioned the ethics of it, especially on an emotive issue such as this. I'd prefer them to come out of "partnership" with management, which isn't compulsory, and start fighting for our rights. The previous governments didn't remove ALL of our rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 It's not contradictory at all. I expect both to be neutral, or at least give the appearance of being neutral, and both are government bodies, or representative of such. By bettering member's lives I mean their terms & conditions and pay - the populace will decide the referendum. I expect many of the members to vote yes, but that is by the by. I know membership is optional, but in this day and age I would suggest that I cannot afford NOT to be a member. I would be equally opposed to the union recommending a, "No", vote, and am on record at the last general meeting as saying so. The DWP shouldn't have done what they did, but neither should the union. Nope. Silly fucker, unions have been recommending how to vote to their members since their inception. Government departments are barred from doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 No, that's a matter of opinion, and the union is made up of differing opinions, that's why they should have taken a neutral stance and allowed the electorate to decide. You are wrong. You might not see that, but to everyone else reading this they will see the contradiction very clearly. In this case it is a union for a governmental body. That doesn't make them a government body. There is simply no way the DWP and the Unions that represent DWP workers are the same thing. To suggest so is madness. Are you suggesting the Department for Education is the same as the EIS, or the Department of Health is the same as the BMA? Of course they aren't. Changed your mind on the DWP then? Oh, so close, you had admitted the DWP were wrong a post ago, don't revert back.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Nope. Silly fucker, unions have been recommending how to vote to their members since their inception. Government departments are barred from doing so. What's wrong with the expectation of a broad based group of people remaining neutral, or would you prefer all unions pushed your agenda? As for silly fucker? Do you make comments like that in the pub, face to face with people, or are you just another daft keyboard warrior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 You are wrong. You might not see that, but to everyone else reading this they will see the contradiction very clearly. Again, in your opinion. I see no contradiction as we were talking about alleged bias. That doesn't make them a government body. There is simply no way the DWP and the Unions that represent DWP workers are the same thing. To suggest so is madness. Are you suggesting the Department for Education is the same as the EIS, or the Department of Health is the same as the BMA? Of course they aren't. We, as a group of workers, are governmental employees, and the union represents us. I believe we should not be tying ourselves to any one political group. What if, "No", wins and a pro union party win the next Scottish election - then we are in a sticky situation and I would imagine the party(ies) would be less inclined to make concessions towards us. I think a neutral stance makes the most sense. I am not saying we are the same as the DOE of the BMA, merely pointing out that all over Scotland, groups are hitching their support to one side or the other. Oh, so close, you had admitted the DWP were wrong a post ago, don't revert back.. I stand by that, it was a tongue in cheek remark. Are you still banishing me if "NO" win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 stuff So you are sticking with the idea that the DWP and the relevant unions that support their employees are both "government bodies" and are the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 What's wrong with the expectation of a broad based group of people remaining neutral, or would you prefer all unions pushed your agenda? As for silly fucker? Do you make comments like that in the pub, face to face with people, or are you just another daft keyboard warrior? Its not what i think, its the facts. Unions have always made recommendations regarding elections. Would you have preferred ignorant twat instead of silly fucker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Its not what i think, its the facts. Unions have always made recommendations regarding elections. Would you have preferred ignorant twat instead of silly fucker? Some unions never make recommendations for elections. I know mine doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Its not what i think, its the facts. Unions have always made recommendations regarding elections. Would you have preferred ignorant twat instead of silly fucker? I can see the level you're sinking to, and there's only one twat here, so let's not try to pass off opinions as facts. Unions do not always make electoral recommendations, nor should they, and I say that having held practically every position in my previous union. They represent people of all opinions, as is the case in this example, so should concentrate on representing my colleagues and I as that's what we pay our subscriptions for; not political advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I can see the level you're sinking to, and there's only one twat here, so let's not try to pass off opinions as facts. Unions do not always make electoral recommendations, nor should they, and I say that having held practically every position in my previous union. They represent people of all opinions, as is the case in this example, so should concentrate on representing my colleagues and I as that's what we pay our subscriptions for; not political advice. I didn't say they always made recommendations, dickhead. How you made any kind of headway in any union is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Its not what i think, its the facts. Unions have always made recommendations regarding elections. Would you have preferred ignorant twat instead of silly fucker? Dickhead now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Dickhead now is it? I meant all unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Okay mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 Are you still claiming that the DWP and the unions that represent people who work in the DWP (although not exclusively) are government bodies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Are you still claiming that the DWP and the unions that represent people who work in the DWP (although not exclusively) are government bodies? It would be very hard indeed to "still" be claiming that when I never claimed it in the first place; I merely made a comparison between a government body, the DWP, giving advice on the referendum one way, and the union of another separate government body advising members the other way. Nor did I mention the union in the DWP at all, I referenced my own union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 It would be very hard indeed to "still" be claiming that when I never claimed it in the first place; I merely made a comparison between a government body, the DWP, giving advice on the referendum one way, and the union of another separate government body advising members the other way. Do No voters realise that their comments which they say they didn't make are simply a click away? I expect both to be neutral, or at least give the appearance of being neutral, and both are government bodies, or representative of such. As it's quite clear what you were saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Do No voters realise that their comments which they say they didn't make are simply a click away? As it's quite clear what you were saying. A mistake of phraseology - my employers are a major governmental body, and my union represents the employees of that body. Nowhere did I claim what you claim that I claimed. Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casual Bystander Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 A mistake of phraseology - my employers are a major governmental body, and my union represents the employees of that body. Oh, right, "mistake of phraseology". Ah... Nowhere did I claim what you claim that I claimed. Nice try though. Well apart from that bit where you were quoted doing so. Other than that, no, certainly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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