hellbhoy Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 I'm afraid your scope for posing questions ran out, back where tyou started accusing UEFA of being a corrupt organisation, for having the temerity to uphold its regulations against laughable caricatures like Celtic and their cretinous fanbase. Of which you are a truly remarkable exhibit. Gutted for you. Worst come back ever to say your not going to answer my question because it'll make you look like a right fanny by arguing for something that really didn't bother you in the slightest but it's too late now because you have made a cnut of it over multiple pages on this thread and you are willing to defend your idiocy. You do know that a troll is a Viking myth ?, but you are obviously not the myth. After a good few exchanges of posts where you have made it pretty darn clear, you'll respond to anything that paints all things Celtic in a bad light no matter what the subject just because it makes you look like a clever clogs bigot. Even if Celtic dealt with the matter within 60 seconds of the person waving the flag you won't say good show for doing it, you'll find some other demented idea attached to the occasion to demean Celtic just because you hate Celtic. I won't bother to respond to any more of your word salad smart erse posts until you answer my question, although you'll claim this as a moral victory you are that deluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 When 98,000 Barcelona fans hold up red and gold cards during Sunday's home match with Real Madrid, forming the biggest ever version of the Catalan national flag, it will confirm that the first of this season's 'El Clásicos' is about far more than just the historic rivalry between two legendary teams. In front of a television audience of some 400 million people, nearly 100,000 voices in a sold-out Camp Nou are set to bellow "Independence! Independence!" at two carefully co-ordinated moments during the match. ....geese a shout when Barca get fined for their relentless political displays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robroy88 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Flying a Palestinian flag while your side is being drubbed by a Slovenian pub team is a cringeworthy, pathetic and - given the inevitable punishment by UEFA - If you think Celtic got drubbed by a Slovenian pub team - Is that you admitting that Greenock Morton aren't even a pub team. Last time I checked, a swastika flag "doesn't have anything written on it", and so presumably gets a green light under the Green Seat Brigade's laughable 'political flegs' criteria. Funnily enough, UEFA disagree. The Swastika represents the Nazi's - no the Palestinian flag does not represent a fascist organisation. And no, the Green Brigade are a non-racist, non-fascist and non-sectarian group. So they would never wave the Swastika flag. Shout what you want, sing what you want, fly what you want, wear what you want as long as you are not 'physically' harming anyone in the process. Nah, Football is against Racism. UEFA are against Sectarianism - it's a pity the Scottish FA turn a blind eye to some football fans singing songs like "We're up to our kness in ****** Blood" Physical abuse is the same as verbal abuse sunshine - i think you should check your own "HEID" oot pal. Domestic abuse - there's no excuse. You couldn't watch a game of football wearing the full orangeman outfit, or the Klu Klux Klan outfit, There both similar. And are not tolerated in a football stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Hardly comparable. In Barcelona there are national, political and historical factors over there, not to mention a fair chunk of the population with a similar viewpoint. Not a couple of hundred pissed up halfwits waving a flag "cos Beram Keyal plaizh wae uz"... I agree with that ..but the point is ..its a political display . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Don't try and insult peoples intelligence everyone know why celtic fans fly Palestinian flags. I am reasonably intelligent but don't feel insulted, just ignorant. I sense there is a suggestion here that it's not just to show support for the Palestinians . I am out of the loop and genuinely don't know the reason. Could someone educate me, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 The fact the clubs were fined suggests UEFA expected the clubs to do something about it. Have the clubs been given a set of rules by UEFA regarding what flags/banners etc are acceptable at European matches and which aren't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 So a swastika flag is okay to be brought along to games? A simple 'yes' or 'no' answer will suffice to deal with this straw man. Are you actually equating the Palestinian flag to a swastika and then speaking about straw man arguments? Seriously? It wasn't a public protest, by virtue of being held entirely within the confines of a private event. And as such, it isn't subject to the broadly agreeable freedom of speech rights applicable to a public protest. Quibble, quibble, wibble, wibble. It took place at a ticketed event open to members of the public and it was a public act. Broadly agreeable freedom of speech rights never factored into my description of it as a public protest. Basically, you seem to have missed the point that sit-ins are generally unsanctioned by occupiers of premises, are often broken up as a result, but they are still public protests. Although as I've said, I regret the use of the word 'protest' as this would really be more of a show of solidarity or even sympathy than a protest per se. Most Scots Law discussions of what is and is not 'public' are found in breach of the peace cases, where the term is given an extremely broad definition (and where it includes ticketed football grounds) but let's refer to guidance on the Private Security Industry Act 2001, to obtain statutory definition of a public event for the hard of learning - Examples of when events or venues are open to the public: ticket only event where the public can purchase tickets either at the door or through agents An event open to selected members of the public e.g. delegates at a work related conference or exhibition A venue open to members e.g. a student union bar which has been issued a premises licence under the Licensing Act 2003 Examples of when events or venues may not be open to the public, for the purposes of the Private Security Industry Act 2001: The set up and break down of an event or exhibition where access is restricted to exhibitors and those responsible for its organisation A beer tent situated within a showground, that is closed to members of the public Any occasions when alcohol is not being supplied for consumption, or regulated entertainment is not being provided, on the premises. Whether UEFA are correct according to their own rules and regulations to sanction Celtic for this public protest/display of solidarity is a completely separate issue, which can be addressed if you want to give up your current losing battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 If you think Celtic got drubbed by a Slovenian pub team - Is that you admitting that Greenock Morton aren't even a pub team. The Swastika represents the Nazi's - no the Palestinian flag does not represent a fascist organisation. And no, the Green Brigade are a non-racist, non-fascist and non-sectarian group. So they would never wave the Swastika flag. Nah, Football is against Racism. UEFA are against Sectarianism - it's a pity the Scottish FA turn a blind eye to some football fans singing songs like "We're up to our kness in ****** Blood" Physical abuse is the same as verbal abuse sunshine - i think you should check your own "HEID" oot pal. Domestic abuse - there's no excuse. You couldn't watch a game of football wearing the full orangeman outfit, or the Klu Klux Klan outfit, There both similar. And are not tolerated in a football stadium. Bless - classic Old Firm 'what about them' deflection and whataboutery, from a classic 'Junior fan with a 'big team'' poster. Two P&B classics for the price of one incredibly stupid contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I agree with that ..but the point is ..its a political display . In a Spanish FA competition. And relating to their actual location. Now, that doesn't stop the Spanish FA sanctioning them for it, but let's face it: they know which side their bread is buttered on. Much in the same way that Celtic and their cringeworthy political gestures and shunning of minute's silences for Rememberance Sunday have been largely ignored by the SFA. Better luck next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Taking politics out of football has always been a bit of a fallacy. How many people support a football team for political reasons? If you go back to the times of Franco's Spain. Football was continually used for his own propaganda purposes. Didn't the war in the Balkans start after a football match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Are you actually equating the Palestinian flag to a swastika and then speaking about straw man arguments? Seriously? I'm equating one fleg without political opinions written onto it with another fleg without political opinions written on it. You are for once correct: the straw man in the argument was hellbhoy's laughable excuse that flegs without writing don't convey political meaning. As has been effortlessly demonstrated with the swatika example, this is nonsense. And flying a Palestinian flag without any other context, other than the ongoing crisis in Gaza, is absolutely a political gesture. Quibble, quibble, wibble, wibble. It took place at a ticketed event open to members of the public and it was a public act. Broadly agreeable freedom of speech rights never factored into my description of it as a public protest. A shopping centre is similarly "open to the public" and has people inside it. Try setting up your laughable 'Free Palestine' campaign there, unauthorised within their private property and subject to council regulations and you'd be turfed out immediately. The same applies to football grounds, only Celtic failed to do the turfing out and so UEFA fined them. Because neither actually counts as a legitimate place for unchecked 'public protest'. Whether UEFA are correct according to their own rules and regulations to sanction Celtic for this public protest/display of solidarity is a completely separate issue, which can be addressed if you want to give up your current losing battle. No: that's not an issue at all. They are completely correct to do so, which is why even your club hasn't ramped up its usual shrieks of protest. In truth, they were likely fortunate that, as St Johnstone and Dundalk correctly fell foul of the same act, the fine wasn't increased greatly for a club who are now serial offenders in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 No: that's not an issue at all. They are completely correct to do so, which is why even your club hasn't ramped up its usual shrieks of protest. In truth, they were likely fortunate that, as St Johnstone and Dundalk correctly fell foul of the same act, the fine wasn't increased greatly for a club who are now serial offenders in this area. Both Celtic and St. Johnstone have requested written reasons from UEFA and are considering their respective positions. The shrieks of protest may follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I'm equating one fleg without political opinions written onto it with another fleg without political opinions written on it. You are for once correct: the straw man in the argument was hellbhoy's laughable excuse that flegs without writing don't convey political meaning. As has been effortlessly demonstrated with the swatika example, this is nonsense. You need to be deprived of oxygen on this thread or a reason to stand any longer on yer soap box looking for attention. You aren't that clever, you may think you are but your not. Arguing with many posters over a subject that doesn't really bother you or get you politically motivated is just trolling in it's simplest form. Go and get a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 VikingTON v Hellbhoy..... Clash of the titans Offffft cannae read this I didn't either Hiya Seamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 In a Spanish FA competition. And relating to their actual location. Now, that doesn't stop the Spanish FA sanctioning them for it, but let's face it: they know which side their bread is buttered on. Much in the same way that Celtic and their cringeworthy political gestures and shunning of minute's silences for Rememberance Sunday have been largely ignored by the SFA. Better luck next time. Barca do it almost every big game including Europe they're are a focal point and voice for Catalan independence...Barcas Catalan coloured away top released on Catalonia national day Thanks for playing etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Well yes I quite clearly do, by virtue of not rooting for a wee knuckledragging team while engaging in Old Firm whataboutery. Thanks for playing anyway though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 In fairness to Junior fans, they are absolute cretins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Morton = wee knuckledragging team. My team: Bo'ness United A bit like someone in Ukraine calling Monte Carlo a shitehole then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 My team: Bo'ness United A bit like someone in Ukraine calling Greenock a shitehole then. Sounds about right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Bo'ness will never be mistaken for Monte Carlo, but the Scottish Railway Preservation Society would probably have steered well clear if it was even anywhere close to being as big a dump as Greenock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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