All things Dundee FC

[Dundee-FC92]

20 hours ago, Dee-lighted said:

Mulligan Saga : despite injured yesterday : hearts are showing interest - they are long term fans of his potential, 

Hearts looking to offload to midfielders

Josh is not open to a new contract until future recognition and being a first team player. Heard this a from a lad who knows the family. 
 

Burton and Stockport sniffing apparently. 

 

 

If I was Mulligan I'd be looking to move and play every week. On the short glimpses throughout pre season along with thr start against Inverness he's looked more than ready. He must've been sat on the bench at Tannadice cursing the performances of the three chosen ahead of him in the middle (they all showed on Saturday what they can do).

Would be a shame to lose him but I'd kind of like him to show the appetite to be a first team regular somewhere and improve rather than drift along like Fin Robertson. If he was to leave I'd say fair play to him and wish him the best. One things for sure just don't relocate to Stockport otherwise he'll be sat cursing his life choices on a daily basis.

Thank you.

 

[Sammons Pizzeria]

If the club keep a hold of McCowan, do you think him and Cameron in the middle give you a good chance of not only solidifying top six, but even pushing on for Europe? Arguably one of the better pairings in the league.  

[alexbanks72]

8 minutes ago, Sammons Pizzeria said:

If the club keep a hold of McCowan, do you think him and Cameron in the middle give you a good chance of not only solidifying top six, but even pushing on for Europe? Arguably one of the better pairings in the league.  

The way other teams are playing, Dundee have a head start. If they keep what they have/add a little bit of depth I doubt they'll miss out on Europe.

[Fifespud]

44 minutes ago, Dundee-FC92 said:

If I was Mulligan I'd be looking to move and play every week. On the short glimpses throughout pre season along with thr start against Inverness he's looked more than ready. He must've been sat on the bench at Tannadice cursing the performances of the three chosen ahead of him in the middle (they all showed on Saturday what they can do).

Would be a shame to lose him but I'd kind of like him to show the appetite to be a first team regular somewhere and improve rather than drift along like Fin Robertson. If he was to leave I'd say fair play to him and wish him the best. One things for sure just don't relocate to Stockport otherwise he'll be sat cursing his life choices on a daily basis.

Thank you.

 

He’ll get a chance and when it comes he has to perform so well he can’t be dropped. He’s more chance of starting for us than Hearts. Can’t see the Doc deliberately not playing him, maybe he’s been an arse over his new contract. 

[mungo]

Mulligan has been in and about he first team squad for a while now. Never really grabs his chance when he's been given it. Might turn into a cracking player or could just as easily become a first division jobber. I'm not fussed if he goes

[Pens_Dark]

1 minute ago, mungo said:

Mulligan has been in and about he first team squad for a while now. Never really grabs his chance when he's been given it. Might turn into a cracking player or could just as easily become a first division jobber. I'm not fussed if he goes

When either of McCowan or Cameron goes he will get his regular game time. You're right, I don't think he's ever fully taken his opportunity when it's given to him but I still think there is a really good player in there. For that reason, I'd be disappointed to lose him - I don't want someone else reaping the rewards of someone who had the quality but just didn't get the time. 

Hearts would be a bad move for him, especially if he's going somewhere for regular first team football. In my opinion anyway.

[hk blues]

37 minutes ago, Sammons Pizzeria said:

If the club keep a hold of McCowan, do you think him and Cameron in the middle give you a good chance of not only solidifying top six, but even pushing on for Europe? Arguably one of the better pairings in the league.  

 

27 minutes ago, alexbanks72 said:

The way other teams are playing, Dundee have a head start. If they keep what they have/add a little bit of depth I doubt they'll miss out on Europe.

Cheers for the praise but we don't want to get ahead of ourselves.  We were a baw hair from going 3-1 down in the derby and playing poorly so we are more than capable of dropping the ball.  That said, If we'd been able to close out games last season we'd have been in Europe this season.  

Top 6 is a big enough ask - Aberdeen looking like they'll challenge for a place and add in Killie and St M whose euro distractions will be over this week and it's going to be tough to get in that group.  We've as much chance as Killie and St M I'd say and will reserve judgement on Aberdeen. 

Still, thinking we'll be looking up rather than down which for Dundee is a rarity.

 

 

[Dundee-FC92]

15 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

He’ll get a chance and when it comes he has to perform so well he can’t be dropped. He’s more chance of starting for us than Hearts. Can’t see the Doc deliberately not playing him, maybe he’s been an arse over his new contract. 

Agreed, Hearts is in the Stockport pile. Not a good move for him but for different reasons. 

Thank you.

[Sammons Pizzeria]

5 minutes ago, hk blues said:

 

Cheers for the praise but we don't want to get ahead of ourselves.  We were a baw hair from going 3-1 down in the derby and playing poorly so we are more than capable of dropping the ball.  That said, If we'd been able to close out games last season we'd have been in Europe this season.  

Top 6 is a big enough ask - Aberdeen looking like they'll challenge for a place and add in Killie and St M whose euro distractions will be over this week and it's going to be tough to get in that group.  We've as much chance as Killie and St M I'd say and will reserve judgement on Aberdeen. 

Still, thinking we'll be looking up rather than down which for Dundee is a rarity.

 

 

Think that’s a good summarisation of where the club is at mate. Your recruitment the last couple years has been top notch, another striker in to share the goals with Murray, keep hold of McCowan and you have a great chance.

Plus, that kit is an absolute topper so it deserves a flying Dundee. 

[Dundee-FC92]

39 minutes ago, Sammons Pizzeria said:

Think that’s a good summarisation of where the club is at mate. Your recruitment the last couple years has been top notch, another striker in to share the goals with Murray, keep hold of McCowan and you have a great chance.

Plus, that kit is an absolute topper so it deserves a flying Dundee. 

We have Hibs(A), St Mirren (H), County(A) and Aberdeen (H) in the next three league matches which will continue a tough start to the season.

All will be clear after that where the Dees fortunes lie.

Thank you.

[Fifespud]

Just thinking about Beck, apparently Liverpool played 2 separate 11’s at the weekend and he wasn’t in either. If he was our player, having come through our academy I’d be pretty confident we get between the 4.5M Liverpool paid for Calvin Ramsay and 11M Everton paid for Nathan Patterson. 

[K.T]

Im a big fan of Mulligan and think he would be a loss to us long term. He’s maturing in the game, hopefully cutting out the red cards. All that’s missing is his final ball being more consistent. His assist against ICT shows exactly what he’s about and can do. 

[Boo Khaki]

3 hours ago, Fifespud said:

Just thinking about Beck, apparently Liverpool played 2 separate 11’s at the weekend and he wasn’t in either. If he was our player, having come through our academy I’d be pretty confident we get between the 4.5M Liverpool paid for Calvin Ramsay and 11M Everton paid for Nathan Patterson. 

I don't think anyone would be paying anything like 4.5million for any Dundee player to be honest.

Even if it was a player of Beck's calibre and we had him under contract for 3-4 years at the point where there was serious interest, we just don't pay the sort of wages that would merit that sort of contract buy-out, and nor are Dundee a club of sufficient enough stature that they could turn down a reasonable offer for any player and not expect him to kick up a stink and/or down tools.

I think we'd be lucky to get 7 figures no matter the player in question. 1.5-2 at a push and only if it was extraordinary circumstances, a bidding war or something.

[Fifespud]

Just now, Boo Khaki said:

I don't think anyone would be paying anything like 4.5million for any Dundee player to be honest.

Even if it was a player of Beck's calibre and we had him under contract for 3-4 years at the point where there was serious interest, we just don't pay the sort of wages that would merit that sort of contract buy-out, and nor are Dundee a club of sufficient enough stature that they could turn down a reasonable offer for any player and not expect him to kick up a stink and/or down tools.

I think we'd be lucky to get 7 figures no matter the player in question. 1.5-2 at a push and only if it was extraordinary circumstances, a bidding war or something.

Do wages come into it? You’re talking about potential. I doubt Aberdeen were paying Ramsay all that much. I understand what you mean about Dundee, and values that can be achieved. I just think it’s a bit wild that they take chances with randoms but don’t seem prepared to give their own players a decent chance. All clubs seem to do this, even us. 

[Boo Khaki]

8 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

Do wages come into it? You’re talking about potential. I doubt Aberdeen were paying Ramsay all that much. I understand what you mean about Dundee, and values that can be achieved. I just think it’s a bit wild that they take chances with randoms but don’t seem prepared to give their own players a decent chance. All clubs seem to do this, even us. 

Yes, they do, because when you purchase a player you are essentially buying out the remaining length of his contract, so naturally if you have a coveted player on a 2 year deal earning £500 a week, the fee is going to be nothing like the size of that for a similar player earning £5000 a week.

You were talking about homegrown Dundee players, so that's the likes of Lyall Cameron, Mulligan etc. Aberdeen are supposed to be receiving 4.5million or thereabouts for Miovski, nobody is going to pay that for a Dundee youngster because Aberdeen will be paying Miovski a f**kton more than any Dundee 21 year-old will be earning. Look at McCowan for instance. A year and a bit older than Miovski, but we're talking about a 1/5th of the asking price, partly because his contract is nowhere near the value of Miovskis.

It's also part of the reason why players with 1 year to run don't attract big fees. Yes, they will theoretically be available on pre-contract in 6 months, but that 1 year remaining  does not hold the value to the club that a 3 or 4 year contract does. Players are assets, essentially, and if you are paying your players buttons and they're on short contracts, you obviously don't value your asset all that highly, so why would any potential buyer?

Clubs also insure their players, so the cost of that will also be a function of the value of the contract.

Edited August 12 by Boo Khaki

[Fifespud]

1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said:

Yes, they do, because when you purchase a player you are essentially buying out the remaining length of his contract, so naturally if you have a coveted player on a 2 year deal earning £500 a week, the fee is going to be nothing like the size of that for a similar player earning £5000 a week.

You were talking about homegrown Dundee players, so that's the likes of Lyall Cameron, Mulligan etc. Aberdeen are supposed to be receiving 4.5million or thereabouts for Miovski, nobody is going to pay that for a Dundee youngster because Aberdeen will be paying Miovski a f**kton more than any Dundee 21 year-old will be earning. Look at McCowan for instance. A year and a bit older than Miovski, but we're talking about a 1/5th of the asking price, partly because his contract is nowhere near the value of Miovskis.

It's also part of the reason why players with 1 year to run don't attract big fees. Yes, they will theoretically be available on pre-contract in 6 months, but that 1 year remaining  does not hold the value to the club that a 3 or 4 year contract does. Players are assets, essentially, and if you are paying your players buttons and they're on short contracts, you obviously don't value your asset all that highly, so why would any potential buyer?

No I get all that but I disagree about wages. Aberdeen weren’t paying Calvin Ramsay a shit tonne of money. Motherwell pay peanuts and got 1.4M for Bair. If you get a bidding war I’d say the wages are totally irrelevant. You’re not buying out a contract, any non OF player in Scotland wages are totally inconsequential to English premiership clubs. My main point was if Beck was at (let’s just say Aberdeen) the likes of Liverpool could easily pay 4.5M for him, however given that he’s actually on their books he’s not getting much of a look in. It’s like despite all their research, scouting, data etc the grass is greener elsewhere. 

[Boo Khaki]

28 minutes ago, Fifespud said:

Do wages come into it? You’re talking about potential. I doubt Aberdeen were paying Ramsay all that much. I understand what you mean about Dundee, and values that can be achieved. I just think it’s a bit wild that they take chances with randoms but don’t seem prepared to give their own players a decent chance. All clubs seem to do this, even us. 

Quite possibly no, but probably more than Dundee pay their players who transition from age groups to 1st team squad, and the big difference is clubs like Aberdeen and Hearts have more financial ability to offer such a player a far larger salary to sign another contract than Dundee do. Even if a 21 year old is on £500 a week or something, Aberdeen could offer that player a far larger contract than Dundee could, so there is more impetus for a buying club to inflate the fee slightly to account for that.

In short, I don't think it's realistic to expect Dundee to be able to attract the same fees for young players a Hearts or Aberdeen do until 1. Dundee are issuing contracts with the same value as those clubs, and 2. Dundee are on an equal financial footing in a far broader sense, i.e. less pressure to sell, more attractive to stay, and more ability to offer larger follow-on contracts.

I'm not denying that perceived player potential and ability are obvious factors in determining transfer fees, but it's far from the only factor, and I don't think you can compare Dundee with Hearts or Aberdeen because you're not comparing like with like. That could change over time, but it would take years, and probably involve a significant fall from "grace" for those clubs as well as Dundee massively improving their own lot. I'm no sure what Hearts' average gate is, but it's bound to be at least twice and probably closer to three times what our is. I'd imagine the gulf in our turnover compared to Hearts is probably a similar multiplier between theirs and the OF.

Edited August 12 by Boo Khaki

[Girth]

Jeez. Obviously it's from 'The S**m' but...

Edited August 12 by Girth

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

2 minutes ago, Girth said:

Jeez. Obviously it's from 'The S**m' but...

They're f**ked with no money, you put a moron in charge like Gardiner and this is the outcome, couldn't care less if they vanished forever. TBH.

Thank you.

[Lalo]

6 hours ago, Dundee-FC92 said:

We have Hibs(A), St Mirren (H), County(A) and Aberdeen (H) in the next three league matches which will continue a tough start to the season.

All will be clear after that where the Dees fortunes lie.

Thank you.

Tough run of fixtures, that. Anything more than 6 points would probably be a good return.