The 2016 US Presidential Election

[welshbairn]

Think I'd rather have Trump than Cruz. Trump is a con man with some sense of pragmatism. But Cruz is a true believer in the dark side. I'd be more worried about his finger on the big button. Hopefully it won't come to either.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Think I'd rather have Trump than Cruz. Trump is a con man with some sense of pragmatism. But Cruz is a true believer in the dark side. I'd be more worried about his finger on the big button. Hopefully it won't come to either.

He's absolutely the con man - paints himself as the outsider standing up to the establishment when he is the very embodiment of establishment.

It's even more embarrassing when he does his rooting for the little man speech in the Donald J Trump ballroom in the Trump National Doral, Miami.

He a self-agrandising loudmouth fantasist.

[LongTimeLurker]

Quite clearly not.

 

An ambiguous answer. Just so nobody is in any doubt. I do not support Donald Trump and I despise what George Wallace stood for. A very simplistic view of the American election is being pushed by left leaning commentators in the UK that airbrushes out the way that careerist politicians like Barack Obama, and Bill and Hilary Clinton have catered to corporate interests that have destroyed the trade union culture that used to give a lot of the American working class a reasonably good standard of living. The better way to go is clearly Bernie Sanders, but he is going to lose.

 

There are reasons why Democratic voters who preferred Bernie Sanders will decide to vote for Trump that have nothing to do with racism, but more to do with a desire for change, because the Democratic party is no longer the party of Roosevelt's New Deal because as with Labour in Scotland they are now just a slightly lighter version of their right wing opponents that do not offer much in the way of an alternative. Both Trump and Sanders would normally have been road kill early on during the primary process, but they are both tapping into a desire for change to an economic system that no longer meets the needs of most of the population in the USA and that could be what propels Trump to the White House given he was able to get the job done in beating the favoured mainstream candidate of the elite unlike Bernie Sanders.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

An ambiguous answer. Just so nobody is in any doubt. I do not support Donald Trump and I despise what George Wallace stood for. A very simplistic view of the American election is pushed by left leaning commentators in the UK that airbrushes out the way that careerist politicians like Barack Obama, and Bill and Hilary Clinton have catered to corporate interests that have destroyed the trade union culture that used to give a lot of the American working class a reasonably good standard of living. The better way to go is clearly Bernie Sanders, but he is going to lose.

There are reasons why Democratic voters who preferred Bernie Sanders will decide to vote for Trump that have nothing to do with racism, but more to do with a desire for change, because the Democratic party is no longer the party of Roosevelt's New Deal because as with Labour in Scotland are now just a slightly lighter version of their right wing opponents that do not offer much in the way of an alternative. Both Trump and Sanders would normally have been road kill early on during the primary process, but they are both tapping into a desire for change to an economic system that no longer meets the needs of most of the population in the USA and that could be what propels Trump to the White House given he was able to get the job done in beating the favoured mainstream candidate of the elite unlike Bernie Sanders.

Trump will change nothing about the economic system not unless it's in the interests of Donald J Trump.

[LongTimeLurker]

You know that, and I know that, but American voters also voted for Ronald Reagan in a somewhat similar set of circumstances, when the BBC and co were assuring anyone that would listen that there was no way that the American electorate were going to vote for an actor from 1950s Westerns, who once played the straight man to a chimpanzee in a comedy.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Here is an amusing dissection of Trump for his gullible supporters. http://reverbpress.com/politics/ten-things-trump-supporters-are-too-stupid-to-realize/

"10 Things Trump Supporters Are Too Stupid To Realize

March 12, 2016

Matt Terzi - Politics

Trump Supporters Aren’t The Sharpest Tools In The Shed

But They Sure Are Tools…

Enough is enough, Trump supporters. We’re done! America has had enough of you. As Hillary Clinton said, “¡Basta!†You refuse to listen to reason, you refuse to absorb any actual facts, and the low-information voter routine got old well before it even began. So I’m going to try and get through to you using the last method we have left: facts, delivered with enough insults, aimed directly toward your willfully ignorant faces, to hopefully get your blood flowing enough to make your brains work properly. And if this doesn’t work, well, at least the rest of us will get to laugh for a little while… you know, before the Fourth Reich begins.

Donald Trump is amassing an army of Neanderthals who only pay enough attention to politics and current events to bitch about how much they hate Obama. If you’re a Trump supporter, then yes, I’m talking about you. You’re an idiot. In fact, it’s worse than that… you’re an idiot by choice.

All of the information known to the human race is available at your fingertips, in the phone in your pocket or on whatever device you’re reading this article, but you choose, free will and all, to ignore anything that doesn’t jive with your preconceived notions. Oh, right, you’re a stupid person… “preconceived notions†are things you think you know before learning something new. Go ahead and pop an aspirin. Feeling better? Good. Let’s continue.

I’m going to lay this out plain as day for you, dummies. Here are ten things that are absolutely, undeniably true. They’re facts. These aren’t my opinions, they aren’t open to interpretation, they aren’t things I’m making up… these are actual, God-honest facts. Take a few minutes with each one. Take an hour if you need it. If we can raise your IQ by a single digit, this will have been a decent success.

Ten Things Trump Supporters Are Too Stupid To Realize

1. Trump Recently Wanted Socialist Universal Health Care.

I’m not talking about something that happened ten or twenty years ago, either. Donald Trump’s original health care plan as of September of 2015 — about half a year ago — involved universal health care for every American citizen. For real. I’m not making that up. Here’s an article from Breitbart (a super conservative website you probably trust more than you trust us) that proves it. It wasn’t the first time he pushed for universal health care, either. Here’s what he wrote in 2000:

“I’m a conservative on most issues but a liberal on health. It is an unacceptable but accurate fact that the number of uninsured Americans has risen to 42 million. Working out detailed plans will take time. But the goal should be clear: Our people are our greatest asset. We must take care of our own. We must have universal healthcare.†– Donald Trump

2. Trump Used To Support Gun Control.

He was big on banning assault weapons, as well as background checks and waiting periods, when he wrote his book back in 2000. Nowadays, he’s more conservative. But you know how people love to rail on Hillary Clinton because she’s a flip-flopper? Donald Trump is a flip-flopper, too.

3. Trump Supported Hillary Clinton!

Speaking of Hillary Clinton, guess who was a big supporter of hers until recently? Donald Trump, that’s who. Hefinancially backed her Senate campaigns repeatedly, and made a yuuuge donation to the Clinton Foundation of more than $100,000 as well. Hillary Clinton sat front-row at Trump’s most recent wedding in 2005, too (Bill was at the reception). He’s been in cahoots with the Clintons in the past. I guess you have a new catchphrase now? Trump “Pals Around With Clintons?†Let’s see if that one catches on.

4. “Trump†isn’t really Donald Trump’s Last Name.

His actual last name is “Drumpf.†Not kidding. His family changed it right before they came to America. That’s right, the immigrant hater not only employed illegal immigrants, he’s descended of immigrants, too. Of course, you probably are too – and that hasn’t stopped you.

5. Donald Trump Speaks Like A Third-Grader.

Do you know why he’s appealing to stupid people? Because he speaks their language. When a bunch of researchers analyzed Trump’s speeches, they found that he uses small words and short sentences, and has the general vocabulary of a CHILD in the third-grade. Maybe the fact that he “talks plain†appeals to you, but shouldn’t a president be smarter than you? Don’t you want a leader who actually thinks? You know… a leader with a brain? A functional brain?

6. You Look Like Nazis.

There’s no pleasant way of telling you this, but when you have a booger hanging out of your nose, it’s polite for someone to tell you before you end up getting embarrassed. Donald Trump’s supporters look like Nazis at his rallies. Sticking your right hands up in the air and chanting your allegiance to Donald Trump while all of the people who disagree with him are beaten up and dragged away, all while your charismatic leader rambles about how much he hates people of certain ethnicities… you don’t need to be a genius to see the similarities here, people.

7. Trump Hates Poor People… Including You.

Most of Donald Trump’s supporters are poor. You might hope to be wealthy like The Donaldsomeday, but chances are, you won’t be. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, I’m just being honest with you. And because you’re poor, Donald Trump thinks you’re a stupid person who doesn’t deserve to vote. Those are his words, not mine.Do you think poverty equals stupidity? Are you a dumb person just because you don’t have as much money as he does? Well… you’re supporting Trump, so you’re definitely a stupid person, but it’s not because you’re poor (for most of you, it’s because your mom drank during her pregnancy… just keepin’ it 100, folks). But I’m not sure why I’m even going on about this. It’s not as if you can read anyway.

8. Trump Isn’t Actually Explaining His Positions.

He talks about how awesome America will beunder his reign during his presidency, but he doesn’t really tell us how he’ll do any of this stuff. The only people who hate Donald Trump more than Democrats are Republicans, so he isn’t going to be able to broker these “fantastic deals†he keeps telling us about. And no, Mexico won’t pay for his wall, either. Why would they? Can you actually answer that question using factual information? No, you can’t, because that factual information doesn’t exist. Don’t buy the magic beans, dummies. They don’t do what you think they do.

9. No, Trump Won’t “Keep Us Safe.â€

I keep hearing Trump supporters claim Trump will “keep us safe.†How exactly will he do that? I mean, he doesn’t detail his plans in any way (which we just covered a moment ago in #8… I know how prone you are to forgetting stuff). He just talks tough and acts tough, but what evidence is there of him being capable of thinking strategically and intellectually? What evidence is there that he can keep us out of wars, or prevent terror attacks from striking American soil? I mean, I play lots of video games… that probably makes me 3000% more qualified to “keep us safe†than Donald Trump is. Me… the guy who writes dick jokes (thanks, by the, to one Donald Trump’s high minded debate style) and other snark on the Internet for a living. I’m definitely not qualified to be president, either, before you ask. Do you people actually ask questions, or do you just take him at his word for no apparent reason whatsoever?

10. Trump Lies To You Constantly.

The worst part is, he doesn’t appear to realize he’s doing it. Remember when Donald Trump told you that unemployment was higher than the government claims? Yeah… he was making that up. The real unemployment number is 4.9% (as of this article being written). That’s using the same metric we’ve measured every American President by since the 1940’s. The other, higher number? Yeah… that’s made up. Trump wants you to believe that as much as 50% of the country is unemployed, but there’s literally no proof of that whatsoever. He just pulled that number out of his orange ass, and you’re stupid, so you believed it.

Donald Trump Is Dangerous.

I don’t know what else you need to hear, or what other factual information you need to swallow. Any one of these ten things should at least make you second-guess whether you’re backing the right loud, abrasive, douchey orange horse or not. The question is, who among you is smart enough to breath with your mouth closed, let alone use Google and try to ascertain some facts about this ignoramus you want to elect as president?

Donald Trump is the worst kind of idiot there is: a dangerous one. He’s a short-fingered trust-fund baby with a comically absurd hairdo, hell-bent on becoming the president for personal gain, and he’s willing to say whatever stupid people want to hear in order to achieve that goal.

Being stupid is a lifestyle choice, folks. You can be a smart person if you really want to be. All it takes is a small amount of effort… a lot less effort than it takes to join Trump’s Nazi-like “movement,†for sure. All it really takes is one book. No, not that one. A different one."

[Yank Mike]

I don't know what's worse.

Trump shamelessly trying to scam ordinary people out of money like a con man, or him trying to deflect from it by saying he won't get a fair deal from a Mexican judge.

I hope he gets called out on it.

Anyone that votes for him needs watching.

It's funny that this has become a huge controversy. It's not because he's ethnically Mexican. It's because he seems to emphasize his heritage and is involved with political organizations designed to help illegal immigrants. Trump is currently running for President on a platform of deporting illegal immigrants and building a wall. This judge sat on a panel which awarded scholarships to illegal immigrants and is a member of an organization which has called for economic boycotts of Trump businesses. This is a civil trial regarding a Trump business. There is a direct conflict of interest regarding this judge's political advocacy and both the plaintiff and this case as a whole.

 

Also, the left are the ones who always say that equal application of the law is a white idea and that people bring their cultural biases into the courtroom. In every BLM case commentators note the race of the jury and judge. Obama appointed a woman to the Supreme Court who said that a wise Latina would more often than not come to a better conclusion than a white man because of her life experiences. When conservatives objected the left defended her. So which is it? Does the Hispanic experience inform a judges opinion or does it not?

[Yank Mike]

Thanks, but I understand perfectly well. You are using George Wallace logic. His voters were natural Southern Democrats who found a home with the Republicans. When he dropped out, literally and figuratively, they were never going to go with the liberal left. Sanders supporters are centrist and leftist Democrats who would far sooner Clinton than Trump.

 

Of course the Southern whites were headed to the Republicans the moment the Democrat Party became associated as the black party rather than the working class white party.

What of the working people in the rest of the country who are flocking to Trump? Where I live Bill Clinton was one of the most popular politicians in state history. Now Trump is going to probably win his biggest majority here. White males without a college degree are supporting Hillary at around 15% in polls. How incredible is that? The Democrat Party was built as the white, working class party. People see that the Democrat Party has sold out to big business. They export working class jobs overseas. They seek to destroy large sectors of the working class economy through environmental regulations which all science says will have no effect on anything. If the US stops building coal fired power plants (as Obama has regulated) it won't affect the global temperature even a fraction of a degree. If we ban all fracking (as Bernie proposes) it's just gonna put a bunch of people where I live out of work and do nothing for the environment. And then they bring in millions of immigrants to drive down the wages of working class jobs which are left such as home construction, janitorial, or kitchen work, and to lower the quality of public services that working people rely on in exchange for their tax dollars. They can't afford that $1,000 property tax bill that supposed to pay for public schools, and then also afford tuition to a private school when their local school becomes 50% non-English speaking and filled with children of parents who have 5th grade educations.

[Zetterlund]

[Yank Mike]

[Yank Mike]

Haha. Saddam Hussein had a nuke program up and running?

[Yank Mike]

Let's all laugh along with Hillary as she tells the story of getting someone who raped a 12 year old off with 2 months served. The state fucked up the evidence which showed the victim's blood mixed with his semen.

[Granny Danger]

Love this from Bernie Sanders.

"It’s absurd that we have more people in jail than any other nation, including China, a Communist authoritarian country four times our size."

[Fotbawmad]

There's a reason why there is so many people in jail in America, and that's the result of the war on drugs; ridiculous mandatory minimums and high bond requirements for petty offences. It's not easy for someone who lives paycheck to paycheck to cough up $5k. 

[Yank Mike]

Love this from Bernie Sanders.

"It’s absurd that we have more people in jail than any other nation, including China, a Communist authoritarian country four times our size."

This is an incredibly simplistic view.

1. According to Wiki, if you combine the official Chinese statistics for prisons with the people held in detention centers their rate of incarceration is 164 per 100,000. Taiwan is 269 per 100,000. We all agree that Taiwan is a free country with freedom of speech, freedom of religion, regular elections, independent civil society, etc. China is an authoritarian regime. It matters more why you can go to jail versus how many people are actually incarcerated. Putting just a handful of people in jail for criticizing the government, advocating for democracy, or participating in unauthorized religious activity can put a stop to 99.9% of people even attempting such activity in certain societies. The people in China are not in jail because they follow the rules, but they are also not "free" in the way we would conceive of "freedom."

2. I found it impossible to find incarceration rates for Chinese Americans, or even precise stats for Asian Americans in general. The best info I could come up with shows Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders incarcerated at a slightly lesser rate than the general population. But those statistics are fairly useless for this debate because Pacific Islanders have the highest arrest rates of any ethnic group in areas where they have a large population and southeast Asians from places like Vietnam or Cambodia are right behind them. I'd wager that US incarceration rates for Chinese immigrants and Chinese Americans are lower or around the same as incarcerations rates in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. Culture matters it determining the criminality of populations. There's no magic dirt that automatically changes criminality rates by people moving over a national border and there's no melting pot that can even out rates in a short time. Even European groups in America that have been here for generations have different criminality rates that often match up with the rates for their home nation in Europe.

[Bishop Briggs]

There's a reason why there is so many people in jail in America, and that's the result of the war on drugs; ridiculous mandatory minimums and high bond requirements for petty offences. It's not easy for someone who lives paycheck to paycheck to cough up $5k. 

 

Well said. Very harsh sentencing and parole policies are the major factors. Poor Americans often get incompetent legal representation resulting in miscarriages of justice. 

[NotThePars]

Respect to Swampy for the work he puts into this Yank Mike account btw. It's a belter.

[banana]

[moved from random thread]

 

Suppose I had set the over/under at 7%? Out of interest.

 

OK, no charity bet takers so...

 

If there's no 3rd main candidate, strictly looking at the Clinton & Trump votes only, I wouldn't accept the bet much lower than 7% (46.5% v 53.5%). Trump anywhere from ~47% to 51% is my guess as things stand.

[Yank Mike]

Bill Clinton's involvement with a sketchy for profit university is finally getting some attention, but probably will never get the same attention as Trump University.

 

http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/the-clinton-university-scandal/

 

Bill Clinton was paid $16.5 million to serve as honorary chairman of Lauraete Universities International from 2010-2014. The owner of this university, Doug Becker, is a major funder of the Clinton Foundation and Hillary's Presidential campaign. While Hillary was Secretary of State the US State Dept distributed $55 million to groups also owned or run by Mr. Becker. The university is also facing a class action suit from former unhappy students.

[Yank Mike]

Trump gave his anti-Hillary speech today. It was amazing. I'd suggest reading the whole thing, but here are some highlights.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/transcript-trump-speech-on-the-stakes-of-the-election-224654

 

verywhere I look, I see the possibilities of what our country could be. But we can’t solve any of these problems by relying on the politicians who created them.

We will never be able to fix a rigged system by counting on the same people who rigged it in the first place.

The insiders wrote the rules of the game to keep themselves in power and in the money.

That’s why we’re asking Bernie Sanders’ voters to join our movement: so together we can fix the system for ALL Americans. Importantly, this includes fixing all of our many disastrous trade deals.

Because it’s not just the political system that’s rigged. It’s the whole economy.

It’s rigged by big donors who want to keep down wages.

It’s rigged by big businesses who want to leave our country, fire our workers, and sell their products back into the U.S. with absolutely no consequences for them.

It’s rigged by bureaucrats who are trapping kids in failing schools.

It’s rigged against you, the American people.

 

 

 

I am running for President to end the unfairness and to put you, the American worker, first.

We are going to put America First, and we are going to Make America Great again.

This election will decide whether we are ruled by the people, or by the politicians.

Here is my promise to the American voter:

If I am elected President, I will end the special interest monopoly in Washington, D.C.

The other candidate in this race has spent her entire life making money for special interests – and taking money from special interests.

Hillary Clinton has perfected the politics of personal profit and theft.

She ran the State Department like her own personal hedge fund – doing favors for oppressive regimes, and many others, in exchange for cash.

Then, when she left, she made $21.6 million giving speeches to Wall Street banks and other special interests – in less than 2 years – secret speeches that she does not want to reveal to the public.

Together, she and Bill made $153 million giving speeches to lobbyists, CEOs, and foreign governments in the years since 2001.

They totally own her, and that will never change.

 

 

 

Our country lost its way when we stopped putting the American people first.

We got here because we switched from a policy of Americanism – focusing on what’s good for America’s middle class – to a policy of globalism, focusing on how to make money for large corporations who can move their wealth and workers to foreign countries all to the detriment of the American worker and the American economy.

We reward companies for offshoring, and we punish companies for doing business in America and keeping our workers employed.

This is not a rising tide that lifts all boats.

This is a wave of globalization that wipes out our middle class and our jobs.

We need to reform our economic system so that, once again, we can all succeed together, and America can become rich again.

That’s what we mean by America First.

 

 

The Hillary Clinton foreign policy has cost America thousands of lives and trillions of dollars – and unleashed ISIS across the world.

No Secretary of State has been more wrong, more often, and in more places than Hillary Clinton.

Her decisions spread death, destruction and terrorism everywhere she touched.

Among the victims is our late Ambassador, Chris Stevens. He was left helpless to die as Hillary Clinton soundly slept in her bed -- that's right, when the phone rang at 3 o'clock in the morning, she was sleeping.

Ambassador Stevens and his staff in Libya made hundreds of requests for security.

Hillary Clinton’s State Department refused them all.

She started the war that put him in Libya, denied him the security he asked for, then left him there to die.

To cover her tracks, Hillary lied about a video being the cause of his death.

Here is what one of the victim’s mothers had to say:

“I want the whole world to know it: she lied to my face, and you don’t want this person to be president.â€

In 2009, before Hillary Clinton was sworn in, it was a different world.

Libya was cooperating.

Iraq was seeing a reduction in violence.

Syria was under control.

Iran was being choked by sanctions.

Egypt was governed by a friendly regime that honored its peace treaty with Israel.

ISIS wasn’t even on the map.

Fast forward to 2013: In just four years, Secretary Clinton managed

to almost single-handedly destabilize the entire Middle East.

Her invasion of Libya handed the country over to the ISIS barbarians.

Thanks to Hillary Clinton, Iran is now the dominant Islamic power in the Middle East, and on the road to nuclear weapons.

Hillary Clinton’s support for violent regime change in Syria has thrown the country into one of the bloodiest civil wars anyone has ever seen – while giving ISIS a launching pad for terrorism against the West.

She helped force out a friendly regime in Egypt and replace it with the radical Muslim Brotherhood. The Egyptian military has retaken control, but Clinton has opened the Pandora’s box of radical Islam.

Then, there was the disastrous strategy of announcing our departure date from Iraq, handing large parts of the country over to ISIS killers.

ISIS threatens us today because of the decisions Hillary Clinton has made.