Andy Murray The Greatest and General Tennis Chat

[blue4578]

So it's alright for you to post nonsense and say everyone else is wrong, but if I disagree with you and produce compelling evidence as to why you're wrong, I'm intolerant?

Go and talk to anyone who knows the first thing about tennis and tell them that Federer is better on clay than grass, or that Murray is a better player on grass than Federer, and watch them roll on the ground laughing their socks off.

[McKee]

Exhibit A

So it's alright for you to post nonsense and say everyone else is wrong, but if I disagree with you and produce compelling evidence as to why you're wrong, I'm intolerant?

Go and talk to anyone who knows the first thing about tennis and tell them that Federer is better on clay than grass, or that Murray is a better player on grass than Federer, and watch them roll on the ground laughing their socks off.

I don't believe I've said anyone else is wrong, I certainly haven't replied to every post with "nonsense".

Where was this compelling evidence?

[blue4578]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, that's fine. I would also very rarely go as far as to describe an opinion as nonsense, but your opinions are so ludicrous that's it hard not to. You'll be in a minority of one on the whole planet in thinking that Federer is better on clay than grass. Therefore such an opinion is nonsense.

Meanwhile, break point for Gulbis to be serving for the match. Can he take this one?

[blue4578]

Some people never learn. If you have a break point on a second serve, you don't have to hit an outright winner off the service return. Utterly brainless play, did the same when he had three break points early in the second set too.

[McKee]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, that's fine. I would also very rarely go as far as to describe an opinion as nonsense, but your opinions are so ludicrous that's it hard not to. You'll be in a minority of one on the whole planet in thinking that Federer is better on clay than grass. Therefore such an opinion is nonsense.

Meanwhile, break point for Gulbis to be serving for the match. Can he take this one?

I've said Federer's achievements on clay are better than his achievements on grass, due to a deeper clay court field. It's not nonsense, it's probably an opinion shared with quite a few tennis fans.

[blue4578]

One of the reasons Federer was so dominant on grass was due to a fairly weak grass court field. Hardcourt has always been by far his best surface, followed by clay.

No, you said that Federer's second best surface was clay. Not the same thing (although both ways you're incorrect).

No one with any sense will share either opinion.

[McKee]

No, you said that Federer's second best surface was clay. Not the same thing (although both ways you're incorrect).

No one with any sense will share either opinion.

Erm, yes, I've already said that was the reason I called him a slightly better clay courter than grass courter a few pages back...

[blue4578]

My final post on this thread for the foreseeable future I would think.

That tie break in a nutshell is why Gulbis will never achieve much in tennis.

1. His overhead is rubbish, always has been. Missed several in that match.
2. His general net play is appalling, can't volley off either side, play drop shots or do anything other than make a complete hash of it at the net.
3. Shot selection is ridiculously bad, going for huge winners in impossibly difficult situations.
4. No patience. Sometimes you need to just hang in there rather than going for the impossible winner.
5. Missed a couple of very easy shots in the tie break, as if often the case in tight matches. Need to prove he has the bottle in such matches.

Gulbis also seems to get frustrated and have a meltdown far too regularly if things start to go wrong. He played well today and should've probably won, but fell short when it really mattered. Certainly has the talent to make an impact, but he needs a coach who will teach him how to play at the net and also better shot selection. If you're an attacking player, you can't succeed if you're frightened to come forward and attack the net when need be. Gulbis will do nothing until he sorts this out as you can't win solely from the back of the court, even on clay. Gulbis also needs to prove he has what it takes to beat top 10 players more regularly if he is to make a serious impact.

Will be a dangerous player for the rest of his career, but likely to float between 20 and 50 in the rankings without fulfilling his potential IMO.

[IrishBhoy]

I only seen the first set plus Gulbis' first break in the second and thought it was an ansolute cert Murray would get beat.

The one thing I noticed was how weak Murrays backhand was in that part of the match. He was always putting far too much height on it and letting his opponent have far too much time to sight his shots and that was one of his biggest strengths in Toronto where ge was continually hitting his backhand with pace and length.

[TheScarf]

I also thought Andy was going to lose yesterday. Gulbis was hitting big and Andy kept hitting his forehands short, which sat up nicely for the Latvian. Both players were guilty of outbursts as the pair were getting increasingly frustrated, as was I.

Andy didn't play nearly was well as he can, but did enough to win the match against a stuffy opponent. Which is why he's part of the 'big 4'.

Another test today for him in the shape of Mardy fish. Fish has the better of him this year, 2-0 I think. In both those matches Andy was on poor form and was very tentative. He said himself yesterday he is playing a lot better now and enjoys playing againt serve and volley players.

Murray in 2 for me.

Edit - This is the first match on the centre court again today. Roughly 5pm our time.

Edited August 20, 2010 by TheScarf

[H_B]

I've said Federer's achievements on clay are better than his achievements on grass, due to a deeper clay court field.

Repeating a nonsense statement again and again doesn't help make it true.

It's not nonsense, it's probably an opinion shared with quite a few tennis fans.

Really? Well, I've played tennis for 25 years, know a lot of fellow tennis fans, have read tennis forums regularly and I have never, ever seen anyone advance this utterly ludicrous opinion until this week.

So, I'm suspecting your "quite a few" is actually you alone.

[McKee]

Drawn in the same half as Nadal for the 8th time in the last 9 slams.

[blue4578]

Better off with Nadal than Federer.

Murray's draw is superb, he really couldn't have hand picked his opponents any better for the early rounds. Querrey could possibly give him a game in round 4 (Murray would be at least 80% likely to win), and Berdych would be a tricky quarter final (Murray would still be a very strong favourite).

Nadal doesn't have a bad draw either. He will coast through the first three rounds just the same as Murray. I would say Nalbandian in the quarters for Nadal would be the only realistic threat to a Nadal v Murray semi final.

From the players ranked 5-8, you'd probably want to be avoiding Soderling, who is in Federer's quarter. Roddick, Baghdatis and Fish would be the seeds outside the top 8 to avoid (as well as Nalbandian of course). All of those three are in Djokovic's quarter, so I'm sure both Murray and Nadal will be pleased with the draw.

[pantene proV]

Murray's draw is superb, he really couldn't have hand picked his opponents any better for the early rounds. Querrey could possibly give him a game in round 4 (Murray would be at least 80% likely to win), and Berdych would be a tricky quarter final (Murray would still be a very strong favourite).

Nadal doesn't have a bad draw either. He will coast through the first three rounds just the same as Murray. I would say Nalbandian in the quarters for Nadal would be the only realistic threat to a Nadal v Murray semi final.

Agree with you re Murray's draw - insanely good.

As far as Nadal goes I can see Denis Istomin causing him major problems in round 2 but if he gets past him then plain sailing to the quarters.

[blue4578]

Drawn in the same half as Nadal for the 8th time in the last 9 slams.

Risking being called intolerant, but Murray was in the opposite half at the French Open this year. Nadal also didn't play Wimbledon 2009, so that's two of the previous five Grand Slams that Murray hasn't been in the same side of the draw as Nadal.

Agree with you re Murray's draw - insanely good.

As far as Nadal goes I can see Denis Istomin causing him major problems in round 2 but if he gets past him then plain sailing to the quarters.

Gave him a good game at Queen's this year, but five sets is a different kettle of fish. You should look at backing Istomin on the handicaps, or laying Nadal 3-0 if they do face each other. Very good odds will be available for both if you think he has a chance to push him close. Istomin would probably be about Evens with about a 6.5 or 7.5 game head start. You never quite know what Istomin will do, he plays a lot of tournaments and loses first round probably more times than anyone else in the top 50.

[McKee]

Risking being called intolerant, but Murray was in the opposite half at the French Open this year. Nadal also didn't play Wimbledon 2009, so that's two of the previous five Grand Slams that Murray hasn't been in the same side of the draw as Nadal.

Nadal and Murray were drawn in the same half at Wimbedon actually. So by my calculations that's 10 of the last 11 Grand Slams that Murray and Nadal have been drawn in the same half.

[pantene proV]

Gave him a good game at Queen's this year, but five sets is a different kettle of fish. You should look at backing Istomin on the handicaps, or laying Nadal 3-0 if they do face each other. Very good odds will be available for both if you think he has a chance to push him close. Istomin would probably be about Evens with about a 6.5 or 7.5 game head start. You never quite know what Istomin will do, he plays a lot of tournaments and loses first round probably more times than anyone else in the top 50.

Thanks! Some good advice there.

[Skyline Drifter]

Risking being called intolerant, but Murray was in the opposite half at the French Open this year. Nadal also didn't play Wimbledon 2009, so that's two of the previous five Grand Slams that Murray hasn't been in the same side of the draw as Nadal.

I'm pretty sure Nadal didn't withdraw until after the draw had been made in 2009 and Murray was drawn in the same half as him.

[pantene proV]

Berdych has been horsed oot in Murrays quarter.

[Kris Boyd]

Just started on SKY Sports 2