Thommo90 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 They're all big boys and I'm sure they'll shout at each other a lot. It's an indicator of hee-haw and we're reading far too much things here. Why would Barr not give a shit? He's 30 years old and came here to play games and get his career going again. Walking about costing us goals and not giving a f**k doesn't do anything to get his career back on track, it finishes it. His career was pretty much done before we gave him a chance. I'm no saying he's not good enough, he doesn't feel like a captain to me and I just think we should be seeing more from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Why are we having this debate on two separate threads at the same time? 2012-2013 - 83 goals conceded. 2013-2014 - 64 goals conceded. 2014-2015 - 79 goals conceded. 226 goals conceded in 108 games equates to roughly 2.1 goals conceded every game. We finished 5th in the league with a goal difference of +1 in 2014. Sorry but I can see why Stevie Aitken felt a change might be needed there. And up until Saturday we were conceding roughly 1.6 goals per game, after Saturday it's 1.9 - still better than any defence with Andy in it. I liked him, he was a lovely guy but that seems to be distorting peoples views on his actual football ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 His career was pretty much done before we gave him a chance. I'm no saying he's not good enough, he doesn't feel like a captain to me and I just think we should be seeing more from him. Interesting point this, and not having a go at yourself here, but who else in the squad would be captain material? Jon Routledge was the only other 'captain type' I could think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Baptie Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Never fully rated Barr, great first season then flattered to deceive there onwards bar the final months after admitting he was going to Hearts Correct in stating he started at centre half, then moved to right back at Dumbarton, this seems to be the case at all his clubs post Falkirk. I Thot he played well at right back at the TFS, tho had mixed reviews his time there with us. The story I heard was that he was on the radar of a few clubs down south but they were concerned of his height and build but if he could perform at right back, they may come in with a money offer. I'm sure Dumbarton won't have such a bad day in the centre of defence like Saturday for a while, really handed us 5-0 as many Ffc fans agreed, we weren't particularly outstanding or had to give 100% for it At the beginning of his time under May in the Academy, Barr played at Right back. He had a nasty leg injury prior to going on loan to Forfar if I remember correctly, then came into the first team as a CH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thommo90 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Interesting point this, and not having a go at yourself here, but who else in the squad would be captain material? Jon Routledge was the only other 'captain type' I could think of. That crossed my mind, wouldn't have a clue tbh. Nobody stands out really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmacDFC Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Let's look at his competition - Buchanan has been standout, our best player. Absolutely no question. Taggart, Saunders, Wright and even Docherty have only played a handful of games. So he's been the weakest out of the two centre half's... Taggart was on great form before his injury - he's been badly missed. Saunders has out-performed Barr in the games both have played in. Wright - I would rather have him alongside Buchanan than Barr. Docherty has only played a handful of games? Hmmm - not very good for a wannabe journalist - he's played 1 less league game than Barr. Actually, maybe not checking there's truth in what you're writing is a pretty decent sign of a successful journalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Taggart was on great form before his injury - he's been badly missed. Saunders has out-performed Barr in the games both have played in. Wright - I would rather have him alongside Buchanan than Barr. Docherty has only played a handful of games? Hmmm - not very good for a wannabe journalist - he's played 1 less league game than Barr. Actually, maybe not checking there's truth in what you're writing is a pretty decent sign of a successful journalist. That's all well and good. It's your opinion mostly though. The stats show that we concede less with Darren Barr in defence than we do with Andy Graham in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Taggart was on great form before his injury - he's been badly missed. Saunders has out-performed Barr in the games both have played in. Wright - I would rather have him alongside Buchanan than Barr. Docherty has only played a handful of games? Hmmm - not very good for a wannabe journalist - he's played 1 less league game than Barr. Actually, maybe not checking there's truth in what you're writing is a pretty decent sign of a successful journalist. Ryt you, simmer doon, I'm no' Darren Barr. Taggart is a big loss I agree, huge even. He drives forward unlike any other defender we have and without an injury would be one of the first names on the teamsheet for me. He'a made 7 appearances this season, 2 in cup games. He was rancid against Queens Park. Out performed Barr in the 6 matches they've played together? Aye probably. Saunders was excellent against Livi, but Barr (and come to think of it the whole defence) were very decent in that match. He was meh against Hibs and equally as poor against Falkirk as Darren. Too early to judge him either way due to those performances. Wright was getting all sorts of abuse after his first couple of games, put in two outstanding performances against Raith and Livingston and then got injured. No idea what to make of him so far based on that, but I don't see him as an outstanding replacement for Barr at this moment in time. Docherty has made 8 starts this season, Barr has made 12. The other three were substitute appearances (QP, Morton and Hibs). So whilst you are correct he's only featured in one game less, his playing time is actually 119 minutes less than Barr's. I wouldn't say he was a better player either based on what I've seen either. In saying that he's a cracking guy, with an Andy Graham like attitude who I do hope does well for us. Like I said, he's been the weakest out of the regulars who play in our defence, and the other guy has arguably been our best signing so far, so it's hardly saying much. Edit: Missed a space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Taggart was on great form before his injury - he's been badly missed. Saunders has out-performed Barr in the games both have played in. Wright - I would rather have him alongside Buchanan than Barr. Docherty has only played a handful of games? Hmmm - not very good for a wannabe journalist - he's played 1 less league game than Barr. Actually, maybe not checking there's truth in what you're writing is a pretty decent sign of a successful journalist. Resorting to personal insults is generally a sign that you know your argument is lost. Petty stuff if I'm honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmacDFC Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Resorting to personal insults is generally a sign that you know your argument is lost. Petty stuff if I'm honest. Personal insult? Must have missed that - where exactly? I was simply commenting on the incorrect wording - which I found funny considering his hobby/career goal (?). You could, however, argue I insulted successful journalists; but for some reason I don't think you'll see the likes of Piers Morgan crying about it... Unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmacDFC Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 That's all well and good. It's your opinion mostly though. The stats show that we concede less with Darren Barr in defence than we do with Andy Graham in it. That's all well and good, but it's not a fair comparison; Darren has better players around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 That's all well and good, but it's not a fair comparison; Darren has better players around him. In your opinion. If you like, we'll take the first 11 games from each season and see how that compares: 21 goals conceded - 2014/2015 22 goals conceded - 2013/2014 31 goals conceded - 2012/2013 In each of those 3 seasons we had another 2 part time sides in the league and this year we've not conceded any more than what our "best start" was (last season). So really, we've done no worse than an Andy Graham led defence and if it wasn't for 1 freak result we'd have done comfortably better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmacDFC Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 In your opinion. If you like, we'll take the first 11 games from each season and see how that compares: 21 goals conceded - 2014/2015 22 goals conceded - 2013/2014 31 goals conceded - 2012/2013 In each of those 3 seasons we had another 2 part time sides in the league and this year we've not conceded any more than what our "best start" was (last season). So really, we've done no worse than an Andy Graham led defence and if it wasn't for 1 freak result we'd have done comfortably better. Do you disagree that we have better defenders at this point this season than last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I'll ignore the random digs at myself and reference to Piers Morgan and try and keep this on track. That's all well and good, but it's not a fair comparison; Darren has better players around him. Hmmm, to an extent I agree with you. But let's look at the defence when we last played Falkirk at home (the 1-0 Archie Campbell game in March) From memory the defence that day was as follows: Rogers Taggart Graham Findlay Wilson Rogers is a better 'keeper than Brown. Taggart is a better right-back than Saunders (based on what we've seen from both, granted only 3 games for Saunders) Findlay is one of the best defenders I've ever seen at the club Wilson was utterly rancid, Docherty is much better. If you want you could compare the two midfielders as well: Turner Agnew Routledge is an excellent CDM, I'd have him over Turner. But he came off at half-time and Stevie Ross played in central midfield. He offered no protection to the back four. Brown and Aggy are both good players, though they are very different. I'd say Brown is stronger defensively, so let's give him the victory here. I'd therefore say that this idea that Graham was playing with a bunch of duds is false, sure there was Mair and Van Zanten but they only managed 13 and 19 games respectively. I guess it's all about opinions as to why we conceded the ridiculous number of goals we did last season. But for an outsider looking in (as Stevie Aitken would've been) you'll look at the goals against column and think that's an area that requires surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Do you disagree that we have better defenders at this point this season than last? I'd say we're stronger at centre half, aye. With Taggart out we're weaker at right back. I like Docherty but do I think he's a big improvement on Linton? Probably but it remains to be seen. I think overall we've a better defence this year yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel wickson Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 f**k sake just watched the highlights back. Darren Barr when he went to ground after realising Baird had easily done him, embarrassing. I looked away when brown hit his kick out at the time, howler, but again Barr wasn't switched on and let Baird in too easy. Third goal I don't know what the f**k is going on, claiming offside? Guy who headed it on was about ten yards on and nobody else looked off/or made any movement to get involved, so I don't know what's went on, whole team stopped in the hope of a decision being made and that is utter shite. Too many players haven't done much to impress me or live up to first impressions. Fleming had a good first half but he is wasted out wide, he should be playing where we use gal but Aitken doesn't seem to want to drop him. Gibson needs to get the finger out, I can see him cracking up soon, moans like f**k when he doesn't get the ball and when he does get it he wastes it too much. Let's get a 442 going, one up top mince is painful. I might be wrong, but I think the far side assistant had his flag up for one of our players (Craig maybe) coming back from an offside position, but Collum (rightly) ignored it/played advantage in Falkirk's favour. Even so, doesn't excuse the utter confusion amongst our players and whatever happened to playing to the whistle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I raised the issue of Andy Graham a few pages ago. Just to be clear I was simply trying to point out that Aitken had jettisoned a player who was a consistent performer for the club over the last couple of seasons and had earned a POTY award last season. Darren Barr replaced Graham as central defender and skipper on considerably more money so surely it's fair enough to make a comparison and question the manager's judgement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thommo90 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I raised the issue of Andy Graham a few pages ago. Just to be clear I was simply trying to point out that Aitken had jettisoned a player who was a consistent performer for the club over the last couple of seasons and had earned a POTY award last season. Darren Barr replaced Graham as central defender and skipper on considerably more money so surely it's fair enough to make a comparison and question the manager's judgement? How much more money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thommo90 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I might be wrong, but I think the far side assistant had his flag up for one of our players (Craig maybe) coming back from an offside position, but Collum (rightly) ignored it/played advantage in Falkirk's favour. Even so, doesn't excuse the utter confusion amongst our players and whatever happened to playing to the whistle? I didn't notice but even if that is the case, like you said, play to the whistle ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Wilf Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Whilst we're comparing previous seasons' stats, on 20th October 2012 the DFC website reported: 'DUMBARTON suffered a dispiriting home defeat against Falkirk, going down 2-0 at the Bet Butler Stadium after a grim opening period and a partial recovery after the break.' It was Adamson's last game in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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