daleboy1969 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Utter nonsense. I think we can assume that evolution is not on the cards if this thread is anything to go by. So we can watch the lingering demise.utter nonsense is it . Think you need to get out more ,I go and watch it twice a week .its parents ( not ex footballers ) teaching BASIC skills . I also hear off junior clubs charging the kids clubs a levy to be part off their club DISGUSTING ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Bing Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I am confident the juniors will still be here in 10 years from now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I am confident the juniors will still be here in 10 years from now In it's current form? I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlowe Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Remember Super Sevens ? Massive investment from Government and Sponsors to create indoor sports halls with Spectator Galleries such as the Hong Kong Model viewable here ... https://www.hkfc.com.hk/sport-facilities/indoor-sports-hall Not affected by wintry weather such as Largs last Saturday - dire for players, officials and spectators. Also suitable for a range of sporting activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worktheshaft Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Absolutely spot on. The junior level may be in decline, but not nearly as quick a decline as at the top level. Every week on Sportscene we see several half-empty stadiums and stands of soulless, plastic seats in SPL grounds. Crowds in the SPL are rising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Utter nonsense. I think we can assume that evolution is not on the cards if this thread is anything to go by. So we can watch the lingering demise. I don’t see anyone trying to say that everything is rosy in the garden, and it’s obviously imperative that clubs do as much as they are capable to attract and retain supporters, who after all are the lifeblood of the game. Towards the bottom end of the Junior grade, some clubs are struggling badly, but I suspect that has always been the case and perhaps always will. At the other end of the scale, the larger clubs are in good health – would they be in even better health by the implementation of the football Darwinism suggested in the initial article? Ask any SPL fan how the current model of the same dozen or so clubs playing each other again and again has worked out… Could we as a grade do things better? Undoubtedly we could in many respects, but I’d contend not merely by slavishly following the lead of others. I think you’ve let your enthusiam for a pyramid at all costs blind you to the good aspects of the Junior game along with the weaknesses of the comparator you’ve chosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Well said however the junior game will continue to just stumble along and be terrified of change as always and just continue to be wrong with certain issues as " hey we have always done it wrong " I can hear them say. Junior football from the top is ran by dinosaurs and there is never any discretion given to clubs and any clubs who request it can be accused of " having too much to say for themselves " . I've heard a few of my workmates who are behind the scenes at Renfrewshire / glasgow junior clubs tell me this. Bowling club syndrome. They're also dying a death and some won't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Absolutely spot on. The junior level may be in decline, but not nearly as quick a decline as at the top level. Every week on Sportscene we see several half-empty stadiums and stands of soulless, plastic seats in SPL grounds. These things are relative. St Johnstone / Killie etc may only get 3/4000 but I've been at Junior games when everyone in the ground including all the fans, committee guys, coaching staff, players and subs could fit in a single decker bus. It's sad that wee clubs are dying due to the hard-working committee guys snuffing it and there is no one left to take up the reins. Most people nowadays have lost their community spirit and there is a job to be done to attract people into the wee clubs, and not just at Junior level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chavez Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 I would agree that Junior football needs a shake up but there are so many strands to it that change will take a lot of discussion and willing, able and forward thinking individuals. The pyramid system needs to be properly explored so that the big clubs - Auchinleck and Linlithgow etc - have the opportunity to move forward. This in itself is a complex issue because as stated earlier some clubs are wary of stepping up due to financial commitments, travel difficulties or other issues. On the flip side of this we have the majority of the smaller clubs who in reality are surviving in the main due to groups of hard working people. Lack of finances, committee or players can quickly cause clubs to fold. How do we get a balance with allowing the stronger teams to progress whilst enabling the rest to be at least stable but have the potential to grow. Has there ever been a fans group of capable individuals who can work with the Junior clubs and authorities? There certainly needs to be a proper structured debate encompassing all aspects of our game otherwise we'll go round in circles again with groups protecting or promoting their own self interests and the petty jealousies which get us nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen-Warrior Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Nothing wrong with any club trying to better themselves whether facility wise or at striving to play at a higher level. Not sure if the junior game is in any worse state of health than the senior game. There's been 150 odd junior teams for as long as I can remember, if the game was so fecked they'd be dropping like flies. As it stands I can see nothing that currently exists in the senior set up that makes me say I'll have some of that. Lowland league? seriously, lowland league? Nice facilities and plastic pitches all round. At least we'll have some nice lemon scented hand wash when we go for a pish at ht. Then what, possibly League 2? Wow canny wait. That'll bring the crowds in for a season or two. Just like our games in the big Scottish, as soon as we're out / novelty wears off they'll disappear quicker than snaw of a dyke and you're left with the same week in week out diehards paying twice the money for at best marginally better football. As Jack G says next logical progression for the junior game is East/West superleague. All well and good wanting to be a Billy big time but be careful where you might end up. Annan athletic were drawing in crowds of 100 when they were in the east of scotland league. Since admittance into the league 2 they have been getting gates between 300-500. Which is average with most teams of that level. So after several years the 'novelty' hasn't worn off for Annan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerblastie Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 No many agreed with me when I was happy for East and west to join up. Tons moaned it be too much travelling etc. i didn't see it like that. I seen it as a step on direction towards the English pyramid system that cleary works. Would not bother me travelling tho as I do it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankies Alive Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 It was Ayrshire clubs that kyboshed the West/East League. The West has a top league that's far too small and the lack of fixtures is an embarrassment. Unless the better supported Junior clubs move forward and are allowed a bigger say in their own affairs they will be strangled by the majority of clubs who have different priorities as they are watched by 2 men and a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerblastie Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 It was Ayrshire clubs that kyboshed the West/East League. The West has a top league that's far too small and the lack of fixtures is an embarrassment. Unless the better supported Junior clubs move forward and are allowed a bigger say in their own affairs they will be strangled by the majority of clubs who have different priorities as they are watched by 2 men and a dog. oh I know. My club voted against it. I disagreed with there stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clash city rocker Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 It was Ayrshire clubs that kyboshed the West/East League. The West has a top league that's far too small and the lack of fixtures is an embarrassment. Unless the better supported Junior clubs move forward and are allowed a bigger say in their own affairs they will be strangled by the majority of clubs who have different priorities as they are watched by 2 men and a dog. That would be because Ayrshire clubs have a lot further to travel than SHOTTS, Kilsyth etc. My opinion is Ayrshire clubs never needed Central clubs never mind East clubs. All for a top division of 16 quite sure Kilbirnie would vote for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clash city rocker Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 oh I know. My club voted against it. I disagreed with there stance. Club never voted against it...the supporters did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 It was Ayrshire clubs that kyboshed the West/East League. The West has a top league that's far too small and the lack of fixtures is an embarrassment. Unless the better supported Junior clubs move forward and are allowed a bigger say in their own affairs they will be strangled by the majority of clubs who have different priorities as they are watched by 2 men and a dog. This is an issue. Our club was described by the president as a business. It's not alone - the turnover at a number of clubs merits adoption of approach which recognises the size of the business. In terms of the wider governance of the game at this level, most of the rules in place are designed to meet the needs of all the clubs - hence my earlier assertion that it operates at the pace of the slowest. There is some value in that and I get the point that the governing body needs to look after all its members. But that needs to be reviewed. Looking after all the members means applying governance that fits the level they play at - not just at the level of the lowest. Introduction of Entry Level licencing standards at top league level in terms of stadium criteria would at least start to bridge between the upper levels of the game and the juniors. By contrast, they could review the minimum standards and ask whether they are all necessary at the lower end of the game at this level. I've no idea whether that would reduce some of the burden at that level but it may be worth a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Club never voted against it...the supporters did. To be honest, I'd just introduce the combined league and leave Ayrshire teams to it. If there are some who want to come on board then fine. Otherwise they can drop down a tier and play only in Ayrshire. The structure is already there for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 It was Ayrshire clubs that kyboshed the West/East League. The West has a top league that's far too small and the lack of fixtures is an embarrassment Unless the better supported Junior clubs move forward and are allowed a bigger say in their own affairs they will be strangled by the majority of clubs who have different priorities as they are watched by 2 men and a dog. I have a feeling junior football is due a split tbh, senior football has had the central league and the SPL formation, juniors had the intermediates era around the same time as the central league but nothing since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 It was Ayrshire clubs that kyboshed the West/East League. The West has a top league that's far too small and the lack of fixtures is an embarrassment. Unless the better supported Junior clubs move forward and are allowed a bigger say in their own affairs they will be strangled by the majority of clubs who have different priorities as they are watched by 2 men and a dog. So what you're suggesting in a roundabout sort of way then is that the "bigger" clubs should have more votes at the AGM instead of one vote for each club?? And we're not all watched by two men and a dug btw, Some of the district teams including my own can attract a fair support. If the Top division teams feel they're being held back by us diddies then form a breakaway league, I'm sure the SFA would welcome you with open arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerblastie Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Club never voted against it...the supporters did. yep true mate as it was voted around the ground. I like the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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