ICTJohnboy Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: So despite Grenfell tower, austerity, brexit, nhs scandals, windrush, rape clause and their general disgusting behaviour the English still vote overwhelmingly for the Tories and reject everyone’s favourite geography teacher Corbyn. Will this serve as a wake up call to the labour drones up here that its either Indy or yet more Tory Governments? Because if Labour can’t unseat the tories in these circumstances then how can they??? Unfortunately the Tories tend attract that xenophobic racist element which is becoming more and more prevalent throughout England. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Yes but in the proven political differences between Scotland and England it is a perfectly reasonable difference to point out as the labour loonies in Scotland cling on to some misty eyed dream of Corbyn being a socialist prime minister when despite the most inept and evil tory government in decades they couldnt score in a political brothel with a briefcase full of money. If you’re going to make snide remarks about other posters at least know or understand the context behind that posters point. Meltdown imminent. Not sure what we're disagreeing about in that case...? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Right but your point was that it’s “bizarre” laying Tory policy and it’s effects at the feet of the Conservative Party which is probably why you’ve responded to him by having the debate equivalent of a stroke. No, I was pointing out the tribal idiocy of blaming everything that goes wrong (worse, everything you personally don't like) under the watch of a particular government on that government. Keep up, Padawan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 No, I was pointing out the tribal idiocy of blaming everything that goes wrong (worse, everything you personally don't like) under the watch of a particular government on that government. Keep up, Padawan. Literally everything he’s named has been Conservative policy. Maybe you should stick to posting troll threads on GN and regurgitating patter from r/thedonald. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 1 minute ago, NotThePars said: Literally everything he’s named has been Conservative policy. Maybe you should stick to posting troll threads on GN and regurgitating patter from r/thedonald. Such allergy to nuance and context Quite the regression in only four months, Padawan. You were making progress! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 No, I was pointing out the tribal idiocy of blaming everything that goes wrong (worse, everything you personally don't like) under the watch of a particular government on that government. Keep up, Padawan. I dont belong to a party or ‘tribe’, literally everything i’ve listed is a Tory policy which has been very negative for the country. Thats why I didnt say ‘oh i can’t believe people voted for the tories after Donald Trump got elected’ because the two aren’t a causal effect of the other, my examples were and highlighted the widening political gulf between Scotland and England. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Yes but in the proven political differences between Scotland and England it is a perfectly reasonable difference to point out as the labour loonies in Scotland cling on to some misty eyed dream of Corbyn being a socialist prime minister when despite the most inept and evil tory government in decades they couldnt score in a political brothel with a briefcase full of money. If you’re going to make snide remarks about other posters at least know or understand the context behind that posters point. Yes, Jeremy Corbyn will be the most amazing Socialist Prime Minister ever if only he gets elected. Oh dear, it is that awkward word "if" popping up again. At the moment, Labour is very inward-looking. A lot of members get very excited about the prospect of another leadership election but don't get very excited about any else. Labour should be assessing why they have not done as well as they should have done but that will not happen. Any criticism will simply be gauged in terms of whether you are for Jeremy Corbyn or against him. "Could more have been done about housing in Barnet or Barnsley or wherever?" "Oh that's it. You're against Jeremy Corbyn. You have always despised him." "No. I was actually asking a question about housing." Edited May 4, 2018 by Fullerene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Yes, Jeremy Corbyn will be the most amazing Socialist Prime Minister ever if only he gets elected. Oh dear, it is that awkward word "if" popping up again. At the moment, Labour is very inward-looking. A lot of members get very excited about the prospect of another leadership election but don't get very excited about any else. Labour should be assessing why they have not done as well as they should have done but that will not happen. Any criticism will simply be gauged in terms of whether you are for Jeremy Corbyn or against him. "Could more have been done about housing in Barnet or Barnsley or wherever?" "Oh that's it. You're against Jeremy Corbyn. You have always despised him." "No. I was actually asking a question about housing." The decisions to skip votes in commons, not take the tories to task on despicable policies have shown labour to be a lame duck and in a way almost as responsible for Tory policies becoming increasingly right wing as the Tories themselves. Corbyn is an aloof geography teacher with a superiority complex, a guy who believes his own bullshit but cant win over the public. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Doesn’t Labour have 1467 councillors to the Conservatives 884 and a combined 1332 of every party that isn’t Labour atm? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: I dont belong to a party or ‘tribe’, literally everything i’ve listed is a Tory policy which has been very negative for the country. Thats why I didnt say ‘oh i can’t believe people voted for the tories after Donald Trump got elected’ because the two aren’t a causal effect of the other, my examples were and highlighted the widening political gulf between Scotland and England. No. In your opinion, your cherry-picked set of items that you give importance to are in your opinion bad for this country and reasons why no-one should ever vote for such a party, ignoring the question of what other parties would've done differently if anything if they were in power, and their negative effects, in the opinion of you and others. Tribal affiliation or not, you're in tribal thinking mode. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Doesn’t Labour have 1467 councillors to the Conservatives 884 and a combined 1332 of every party that isn’t Labour atm? The elections were largely large urban centers around London, parts of Lancashire and the midlands which are strongly Labour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 The elections were largely large urban centers around London, parts of Lancashire and the midlands which are strongly Labour. There does appear to be a fairly substantial gap between rural and urban voters these days which is particularly analogous with a specific moment in history that we all love to bring up!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, NotThePars said: There does appear to be a fairly substantial gap between rural and urban voters these days When was that not the case. Cities Labour shires Tory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooky Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Doesn’t Labour have 1467 councillors to the Conservatives 884 and a combined 1332 of every party that isn’t Labour atm? The issue though, and I think it was somewhat noticeable in the GE also, is that Labour increase their vote massively in places they are already strong in. These council elections were quite favourable to them as it was mostly London and other urban areas. So yeah they’ve done well in numbers, but I imagine it’s mostly due to now having even larger majoritities on councils they already had majorities. I don’t think you can argue they’ve had a good election when you consider they didn’t swing any of their target councils in London - where they are now strongest as a party - from Tory control to Labour control. And councils such as Barnet went from NOC to a Tory majority. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 The issue though, and I think it was somewhat noticeable in the GE also, is that Labour increase their vote massively in places they are already strong in. These council elections were quite favourable to them as it was mostly London and other urban areas. So yeah they’ve done well in numbers, but I imagine it’s mostly due to now having even larger majoritities on councils they already had majorities. I don’t think you can argue they’ve had a good election when you consider they didn’t swing any of their target councils in London - where they are now strongest as a party - from Tory control to Labour control. And councils such as Barnet went from NOC to a Tory majority. People will, and are, arguing though that areas such as Wandsworth or Westminster were incredibly close to going red which given demographics, particularly in Westminster, is worth considering. It does feel like the Scottish council elections in that most parties are going to claim victory from this and they all have a good case to make for that. Except for UKIP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Sooky said: The issue though, and I think it was somewhat noticeable in the GE also, is that Labour increase their vote massively in places they are already strong in. These council elections were quite favourable to them as it was mostly London and other urban areas. So yeah they’ve done well in numbers, but I imagine it’s mostly due to now having even larger majoritities on councils they already had majorities. I don’t think you can argue they’ve had a good election when you consider they didn’t swing any of their target councils in London - where they are now strongest as a party - from Tory control to Labour control. And councils such as Barnet went from NOC to a Tory majority. They are losing in key parts of the midlands, this is geographically a key General Election battle ground. Nuneaton, Peterborough and places around there. The only realistic hope is for a revived Lib Dem to chew out a couple of seats in the SW of England where they tend to be the contenders with the Tories to reduce their Westminster total, perhaps swinging towards a Lab minority government. But the English voters reacted very badly to the threat of the Lab\SNP team up in 2015. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled tangerine Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 It was a fairly shite result for Labour. I think it proves they don't have the backing to win a general election. The Conservatives will be content knowing they have the UKIP vote largely returning to the fold and won't be disappointed. The Lib-dems are as always, just about here and there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmothecat2 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I don't know that it was that bad a result for Labour. I think their problem is they raised expectation with bold claims about all the councils they were apparently going to take, some of which have never been Labour or haven't been Labour since the 1970s. They had an Ok night as far as I can gather, it just looks worse I think due to the high expectations they inexplicably set themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 (edited) Until Labour can come up with, and offer a coherent and workable alternative to the government's brexit plans they can not be taken seriously. Edited May 5, 2018 by ICTJohnboy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 (edited) Powah! Edited May 4, 2018 by Crùbag 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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