Potential Signings for Top Table

[stonedsailor]

The answer is in what you have posted, do you really need me to explain it To you?

Yeah please.

RFC ltd owes £19M to RIFC. RFC ltd owes £29M in total. Who does RFC ltd owe the other £10M to? Are they equity participants? (That means are they shareholders in RFC ltd). As far as I am aware it is only RIFC who own shares in RFC ltd since the IPO of RIFC.

[nacho]

Yeah please.

RFC ltd owes £19M to RIFC. RFC ltd owes £29M in total. Who does RFC ltd owe the other £10M to? Are they equity participants? (That means are they shareholders in RFC ltd). As far as I am aware it is only RIFC who own shares in RFC ltd since the IPO of RIFC.

We don't have any external debt, so all the money is owed to equity participants , hope that clears it up

[stonedsailor]

We don't have any external debt, so all the money is owed to equity participants , hope that clears it up

Can you provide a source for this?

[dave.j]

Can you provide a source for this?

Think it comes from the same statement from King where he talks about Hong Kong investors.

[Nipper]

So a standard set by two clubs with massive spending power that others can't touch is healthy for the wider game? How so?

How did other sides benefit from the presence in our game of Larsson or Laudrup? The only impact was in encouraging brainless overspending in others. If I want to watch brilliant players, I've got a telly.

I can't honestly believe that you're suggesting a helicopter Sunday involving Hearts and Aberdeen would be "the same" as a Celtic/Rangers one. Neither Hearts or Aberdeen can point to resources that dwarf those of rivals like Hibs or Dundee United by ten to twenty times. Neither your home town or mine is full of people who identify primarily with Hearts or Aberdeen at the expense of sides closer to home. Any trophy for OF fans is clearly diluted in significance and meaning by the fact that if they miss out this time, they'll have every chance next time round.

My objection to King's comments was that he saw all trophies going to two clubs from one city as ideal, rather being based on where he drew the line between the two.

I understand why OF fans - especially Rangers ones given recent history - yearn for a return to a set-up where two teams have simply colossal advantages over their peers.

I'm utterly baffled however, as to why anyone else would.

Scotland isn't unique in having two teams who because of finance can virtually guarantee some kind of success every season. The most obvious one is in Spain but there are others. Can you really imagine a Spanish football fan asking, what benefit does Ronaldo and Messi bring to our league the way you've questioned the presence of Larsson and Laudrup in ours, I don't think so. Would you really say that any trophies won by Real Madrid or Barcelona are diluted in significance and meaning because if they don't win them one year they can win them the next or does that just apply to the O F.

I don't need to have a connection with clubs to find e. g. playoffs or helicopter Sundays or cup finals exciting, so it really doesn't matter who is involved.

As far as Dave King's comments are concerned, you can object as much as you like, all I asked was what did you expect him to say.

I don't for one minute believe we have the perfect system far from it but we're not alone.

[Monkey Tennis]

Scotland isn't unique in having two teams who because of finance can virtually guarantee some kind of success every season. The most obvious one is in Spain but there are others. Can you really imagine a Spanish football fan asking, what benefit does Ronaldo and Messi bring to our league the way you've questioned the presence of Larsson and Laudrup in ours, I don't think so. Would you really say that any trophies won by Real Madrid or Barcelona are diluted in significance and meaning because if they don't win them one year they can win them the next or does that just apply to the O F.

I don't need to have a connection with clubs to find e. g. playoffs or helicopter Sundays or cup finals exciting, so it really doesn't matter who is involved.

As far as Dave King's comments are concerned, you can object as much as you like, all I asked was what did you expect him to say.

I don't for one minute believe we have the perfect system far from it but we're not alone.

That banner held up a few years ago would suggest that there's just the same disquiet there over the emergence of a duopoly and that ours is a version of the game that many Spanish fans explicitly warn against their game descending into, so thanks for providing quite such a splendid example to support the point I'm making - I wish I'd thought of it.

Even there though, the fact that sides like Atletico, Deportivo and Valencia have all won titles in relatively recent memory, shows that their difficulties in that regard don't yet rival ours.

Of course the titles won by the big two in Spain carry less significance for supporters than the more isolated ones do. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise? Would a Leicester triumph in England this year be no more notable than another Man United one would have been?

If you wish to say that OF helicopter Sundays are exciting or that there's nothing wrong with King envisaging a world where the vast, vast bulk of clubs provide but a backdrop, then that's up to you.

I thoroughly disagree though and think that such naivety and acquiescence goes a long way towards harming our game.

[dave.j]

That banner held up a few years ago would suggest that there's just the same disquiet there over the emergence of a duopoly and that ours is a version of the game that many Spanish fans explicitly warn against their game descending into, so thanks for providing quite such a splendid example to support the point I'm making - I wish I'd thought of it.Even there though, the fact that sides like Atletico, Deportivo and Valencia have all won titles in relatively recent memory, shows that their difficulties in that regard don't yet rival ours.Of course the titles won by the big two in Spain carry less significance for supporters than the more isolated ones do. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise. Would a Leicester triumph in England this year be no more notable than another Man United one would have been?If you wish to say that OF helicopter Sundays are exciting or that there's nothing wrong with King envisaging a world where the vast, vast bulk of clubs provide but a backdrop, then that's up to you.I thoroughly disagree though and think that such naivety and acquiescence goes a long way towards harming our game.

Spot on. Apart from the prize money. I'd spread it equally across all teams, regardless of final placing. Less prize money, more a participation reward.

[Solitaire]

[Nipper]

That banner held up a few years ago would suggest that there's just the same disquiet there over the emergence of a duopoly and that ours is a version of the game that many Spanish fans explicitly warn against their game descending into, so thanks for providing quite such a splendid example to support the point I'm making - I wish I'd thought of it.

Even there though, the fact that sides like Atletico, Deportivo and Valencia have all won titles in relatively recent memory, shows that their difficulties in that regard don't yet rival ours.

Of course the titles won by the big two in Spain carry less significance for supporters than the more isolated ones do. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise? Would a Leicester triumph in England this year be no more notable than another Man United one would have been?

If you wish to say that OF helicopter Sundays are exciting or that there's nothing wrong with King envisaging a world where the vast, vast bulk of clubs provide but a backdrop, then that's up to you.

I thoroughly disagree though and think that such naivety and acquiescence goes a long way towards harming our game.

The reason I picked Spanish football as an example is because I consider it to be one of the most successful leagues in the world, which seems to be lost on you.

You claim that there are Spanish fans who are fearful of the emergence of duopoly. Here's a news flash for them, it already exists and has done for some time.

Of course I would be delighted to see Leicester win the title, it would be a tremendous achievement, but it certainly doesn't dilute the achievements of other clubs winning the title in previous years.

You seem to be really upset about Dave King's comments after the semi final. I've stated about three times now, I don't care what he says, all I asked you was, what did you expect him to say.

You also claimed that since the demise of Rangers clubs had become much more sensible with their finances. It must have come as a shock to hear that Kilmarnock have just returned losses of £725 000 for the year ending. It'll be interesting to see if any clubs report losses in this new sensible football environment which has developed over the last few years.

Are O F helicopter Sundays days exciting? Yes. There I've said it again and make no apology for doing so.

Do you really want to reduce the t v money coming into our game ? Do you really want to reduce further our standing in the game?

Do you want to strangle investment in our game? It would appear that you do.

[Nipper]

Spot on. Apart from the prize money. I'd spread it equally across all teams, regardless of final placing. Less prize money, more a participation reward.

Brilliant let's reward failure.

[Monkey Tennis]

The reason I picked Spanish football as an example is because I consider it to be one of the most successful leagues in the world, which seems to be lost on you.

You claim that there are Spanish fans who are fearful of the emergence of duopoly. Here's a news flash for them, it already exists and has done for some time.

Of course I would be delighted to see Leicester win the title, it would be a tremendous achievement, but it certainly doesn't dilute the achievements of other clubs winning the title in previous years.

You seem to be really upset about Dave King's comments after the semi final. I've stated about three times now, I don't care what he says, all I asked you was, what did you expect him to say.

You also claimed that since the demise of Rangers clubs had become much more sensible with their finances. It must have come as a shock to hear that Kilmarnock have just returned losses of £725 000 for the year ending. It'll be interesting to see if any clubs report losses in this new sensible football environment which has developed over the last few years.

Are O F helicopter Sundays days exciting? Yes. There I've said it again and make no apology for doing so.

Do you really want to reduce the t v money coming into our game ? Do you really want to reduce further our standing in the game?

Do you want to strangle investment in our game? It would appear that you do.

Ok, this is just ridiculous now.

I've no idea what King said after the semi-final - none at all. My observations were based on an interview he gave many months ago.

I've also said nothing about "clubs becoming much more sensible with their finances". Stop making stuff up. Instead, discuss with me the things I do say.

I would happily see less money in our game if that money was distributed more equitably. What do you mean by "our standing in the game" and how is it aided by a wildly imbalanced domestic set-up dominated by clubs with distasteful baggage?

[Nipper]

Ok, this is just ridiculous now.

I've no idea what King said after the semi-final - none at all. My observations were based on an interview he gave many months ago.

I've also said nothing about "clubs becoming much more sensible with their finances". Stop making stuff up. Instead, discuss with me the things I do say.

I would happily see less money in our game if that money was distributed more equitably. What do you mean by "our standing in the game" and how is it aided by a wildly imbalanced domestic set-up dominated by clubs with distasteful baggage?

" clubs with distasteful baggage " is a different discussion.

I think you know perfectly well what I mean by " our standing in the game " no explanation required.

" clubs becoming much more sensible with their finances " is a claim which has been made many times on different threads by posters who share your views regarding a new dawn for Scottish football. If you don't share these views then please accept my apologies. I have wrongly presumed that you were all singing from the same hymn sheet.

"a wildly imbalanced domestic set-up" yes well we're back to where we started, so really there's nothing left to say. I hope we can at least agree about that.

[Monkey Tennis]

" clubs with distasteful baggage " is a different discussion.

I think you know perfectly well what I mean by " our standing in the game " no explanation required.

" clubs becoming much more sensible with their finances " is a claim which has been made many times on different threads by posters who share your views regarding a new dawn for Scottish football. If you don't share these views then please accept my apologies. I have wrongly presumed that you were all singing from the same hymn sheet.

"a wildly imbalanced domestic set-up" yes well we're back to where we started, so really there's nothing left to say. I hope we can at least agree about that.

"Back to where we started" is indeed something we can agree upon. Whereas I however consider this regrettable, you welcome it, which as I've said, I find utterly baffling in someone who apparently has no fondness for either of the sides that benefited so hugely from such a distorted arrangement.

I actually think you do need to explain what you mean by "our standing in the game", because I think it's one of those received phrases that get parroted often, but are essentially pretty meaningless. I'm interested to know what it means to you specifically. Who is it that you have concerns about our "standing" with? How do you measure such a thing anyway?

There is absolutely nothing 'other' about the issue of distasteful baggage. Indeed, it's central to this discussion. It's got a great deal to do with why many of us hold the clubs in contempt and don't wish to see a game which is structured to ensure that they triumph. Similarly, in terms of what it projects about our country, it should surely be of concern to someone preoccupied with notions of our "standing".

[Monkey Tennis]

Brilliant let's reward failure.

Brilliant, let's perpetuate success by fixing who's capable of achieving it.

That's definitely what makes sport worth watching.

[strichener]

... we're back to where we started.

 

Yes I agree.  As you are an Airdrie supporter, there are many similarities with Rangers.  The most important being that the original clubs are no longer with us.

[leomessi1984]

Plenty of on topic discussion as always lol

We will definitely need a holding midfielder should Ball not stay on. I think he'd do a good job if we could keep him. Another striker and a centre hf for me too.

[aofjays]

"Back to where we started" is indeed something we can agree upon. Whereas I however consider this regrettable, you welcome it, which as I've said, I find utterly baffling in someone who apparently has no fondness for either of the sides that benefited so hugely from such a distorted arrangement. I actually think you do need to explain what you mean by "our standing in the game", because I think it's one of those received phrases that get parroted often, but are essentially pretty meaningless. I'm interested to know what it means to you specifically. Who is it that you have concerns about our "standing" with? How do you measure such a thing anyway? There is absolutely nothing 'other' about the issue of distasteful baggage. Indeed, it's central to this discussion. It's got a great deal to do with why many of us hold the clubs in contempt and don't wish to see a game which is structured to ensure that they triumph. Similarly, in terms of what it projects about our country, it should surely be of concern to someone preoccupied with notions of our "standing".

 

 "Our standing within the game", is just bullshit glory hunting, ie. if the old firm do well in Europe it makes the other members of the league look better by association. Of course when they riot in foreign cities that is associated with us too.

[strichener]

Plenty of on topic discussion as always lol

We will definitely need a holding midfielder should Ball not stay on. I think he'd do a good job if we could keep him. Another striker and a centre hf for me too.

Yep, It really is on topic for you.

 

My Team: Dunfermline

 

Rangers = We

 

[dave.j]

Brilliant let's reward failure.

The reward is winning the title. Prestige enough.

Further reward in the top league with euro places.

[bennett]

Brilliant, let's perpetuate success by fixing who's capable of achieving it.

.

Anyone but Celtic?