Club Academy Scotland - Cuts

[rtg1971]

I am hearing that the CAS funding is being reduced and as a direct impact of this and Mr McLairs vision being implemented (some vision - lets copy England) that 50% of players in the CAS system right now are about to get bumped. In effect they are joining age groups together so the 2001 & 2002 current squads shall become one with a maximum of 14 players in this squad.

Is this happening across the board in Scotland? Is it a good idea?

For me its a start but not the end game - i would have preffered regional academys within the country which pro clubs have very little involvement in. That would be true best v best then a season draft pick idea for the youth players with a guarantee installed that they would get X games in that club at u20 level at the very least.

I suppose at the end of the day the 50% reduction will eliminate (but not completely) the jersey filling that happens right now.

Thoughts anyone?

[Synthetic Bridie]

If true, when is this being implemented?

[rtg1971]

the club i know of is implementing it soon but i have no idea about other clubs. I think its for next season tbh

[TheLad]

Something needs to change within the CAS system but funding cuts isn't one of them.

Obviously this doesn't apply to all clubs but there is far too much emphasis on quantity rather than quality within the system.

Without doubt, there are far too many players in the pro youth system, players which the clubs know have zero chance of having a career in the professional game. But they have to fill squads to keep the teams going. This is so wrong and gives false hope to these players

[rigano]

How can they run a 11s team with 14 players?

[joriki7]

U13 and u14 apparently joining together also across all clubs also.

[The Bossman99]

Ridiculous in my opinion if true. How is a funding cut going to help development? Merging 2 age groups is nonsense - how is a young 2007 player (Dec Birthday) meant to compete with an older 2006 player (Jan birthday) for example? (Especially difficult at the younger age groups - but a year difference is still a lot to deal with at the older age groups). I don't really get the criticism of the whole setup - what is the possible downside of kids getting good quality coaching from senior clubs versus playing at their boys club? Some boys clubs are brilliant, but many are still just keen dads - it's night and day the coaching most of them get at senior clubs.

The whole criticism seems to have been set in motion in public by Gordon Strachan. He failed to qualify from a fairly easy European Championship group and decided that this was due to kids having to travel to Aberdeen occasionally to play games. It's a ludicrous argument and he should have been chased for his failure - but he's deflected elsewhere and the bandwagon against the system has grown. It's absolute nonsense and if true is a massive backward step in my opinion.

[rigano]

I guess the theory is the Dec 07 boy should be able to compete with Jan 06 boy or he's not good enough in any case?

[rigano]

But thinking about it you'd in turn expect the Jan 06 boy to compete with Jan 05 boys so the Dec 07 boy better be really good...

Imo it will lead to more boys getting taken in earlier as clubs won't want to miss out on any talent but then more boys getting released when it comes to actually signing.

[The Bossman99]

I guess the theory is the Dec 07 boy should be able to compete with Jan 06 boy or he's not good enough in any case?

At older age groups it's possible that kids who are effectively 2 years apart in age (assuming extreme situation of a Jan kid in the older age group and December kid in the younger age group) could compete - but at the younger ages (say under 10) - it is just not possible except in extreme cases. Even the most talented of the younger kids will just get physically overpowered by a decent older kid. Will this lead to more of the case of simply looking for the biggest/strongest kids like some of the clubs already do?

I still don't understand the case against the academy system - so some kids are 'jersey fillers' (which I don't buy into anyway - football is full of stories about kids written off at a young age - and if these kids have got into an academy, they surely have some level of potential). Moving them all back to boys clubs (which may be well run - or may be poorly run) - how does this solve the problem? Surely there are just more 'jersey fillers' in the boys club and the overall level that the kids play at is lower? Makes no sense to me.

To lay the blame for the lack of talent in Scottish football at the door of the academy system seems false to me. Only a very small proportion of kids are in the academy system at any given time - boys clubs have to shoulder some of the blame as well - where are the great players that system is producing?

I still think it's a backwards step if true (haven't heard about these changes anywhere else but here). I wouldn't say we have an abundance of talent yet, but we are beginning to produce more players with technical ability again and we now have a lot of young players playing at decent level again (in SPL or in England) - would be interesting to know how many of these players came through the Academy System in Scotland.

I actually agree with the original poster who talked about regional academies where the clubs have little control - but doesn't seem likely that will happen anytime soon.

Not that I have any particular axe to grind with Gordon Strachan, but if he had qualified for the European Championships, then there would be an entirely different complexion to this discussion. But he failed to beat Georgia - that is the issue - not the Academy system. Since he made those comments it's been open season in the media against the system and to me it's a false argument.

[Pinks]

There's a whole host of reasons why talented youngsters don't progress to professional level, including the ability of coaches as well as the attitude of players.

Playing with an academy doesn't necessarily mean better coaching. I recently attended an SFA coaching course in which several coaches were from CAS teams. There were a couple there who struggled to organise a training session and some who hadn't even played football to any level before. I'm not suggesting you must have played pro or junior level to be a coach, but surely these clubs must need coaches with a deeper understanding and experience of the game if they are serious about developing young prospects?

The current pro youth system is in dire need of reform whether Scotland had qualified for the Euro's. In that respect at least Strachan had a point.

[Boomtown Boy]

In Germany (world champions with a pop more than 10x bigger than us) they have 5000 elite players we in Scotland seem to think we have 3000 "elite" players.

It does need scaled down. I am not so sure about combining 2 year groups but they should cut half of the teams in CAS and ask these teams to forge closer relations with the local boys club who by the way some of the lower end pro youth set ups are no better than well run boys clubs anyway. Clyde withdrew last year saying the were selling the kids a false dream of being a professional player, Arbroath as well. That speaks volumes. A CAS member withdrawing not because of money or economics but because they felt they were miselling what they could actually achieve to the boys and parents.

[Pinks]

It would certainly make sense from a development perspective to reduce the "elite" teams and focus on the development of less players to produce more quality through the ranks.

The SFA will protect the status quo as much as possible though. all these coaches need courses and this is a significant income stream which will dry up if you reduce the coach numbers.

Regional select would be the way forward and allow the kids the opportunity to play as much football as possible. But then you go into the lack of facilities and the problems start all over again.

[The Bossman99]

Makes a bit more sense if some of the CAS clubs are poorly run.  I've only experienced a couple of the Elite CAS teams and my experience of them has been excellent - great coaching.  Would be a shame if they had to reduce numbers given the investments made, but maybe makes sense with some of the less well run.  How much are these clubs monitored by the SFA/SYFA etc?  Still think that combining age groups at the lower ages is crazy through.

[TheLad]

There's a whole host of reasons why talented youngsters don't progress to professional level, including the ability of coaches as well as the attitude of players.

 

Playing with an academy doesn't necessarily mean better coaching. I recently attended an SFA coaching course in which several coaches were from CAS teams. There were a couple there who struggled to organise a training session and some who hadn't even played football to any level before. I'm not suggesting you must have played pro or junior level to be a coach, but surely these clubs must need coaches with a deeper understanding and experience of the game if they are serious about developing young prospects?

 

The current pro youth system is in dire need of reform whether Scotland had qualified for the Euro's. In that respect at least Strachan had a point. 

I think it is important to remember that the vast majority of the coaches in Scottish academies are paid absolute peanuts, effectively volunteers and its therefore difficult to attract the best, or ex pros to the smaller clubs.

Down south , many academy positions are full time (Doncaster last week advertised youth coach position for 26k) so we cannot compete

[BTID]

You are definitely not in it for the money - it wouldn't even count as a part time earner the amount of hours you probably do away from the paid times. I'd imagine most do it to develop themselves as coaches.

[Pinks]

I wouldn't disagree with that and I can't speak for all academies, but having had an insight into my local club's structure, it seems in dire need of improving.

 

The standard of coaching is so inconsistent it has to be seen to be believed and the links with local clubs non existent. Our community club actually carries the local clubs name and we're in danger of losing our best players to Falkirk and Stenhousemuir which is completely unacceptable in my view.

 

It seems that a CAS team is established because they think they have to do it and then they're left to their own devices. No quality assurance, no improvement in communications etc etc. Then we wonder why hardly any kids progress and improve the game nationally.

 

Two of my friends boys play in one of the CAS teams and they were telling me they were 3 - 0 down after 20 minutes and the coaches input was one of them repeatedly saying "Come on Stirling" and the other slouching on the side of the dugout. No tactical instructions, no change of shape,nothing.To me that's completely unfair on the kids involved. How on earth they're meant to develop with that sort of input is beyond me.

[Wilky1878]

I wouldn't disagree with that and I can't speak for all academies, but having had an insight into my local club's structure, it seems in dire need of improving.

The standard of coaching is so inconsistent it has to be seen to be believed and the links with local clubs non existent. Our community club actually carries the local clubs name and we're in danger of losing our best players to Falkirk and Stenhousemuir which is completely unacceptable in my view.

It seems that a CAS team is established because they think they have to do it and then they're left to their own devices. No quality assurance, no improvement in communications etc etc. Then we wonder why hardly any kids progress and improve the game nationally.

Two of my friends boys play in one of the CAS teams and they were telling me they were 3 - 0 down after 20 minutes and the coaches input was one of them repeatedly saying "Come on Stirling" and the other slouching on the side of the dugout. No tactical instructions, no change of shape,nothing.To me that's completely unfair on the kids involved. How on earth they're meant to develop with that sort of input is beyond me.

What age is your friends boys? At a young age I find it can sometimes be beneficial to just let the boys play and do the work on tactics within training drills. It can help with their decision making, give them a sense of freedom and at a young age giving instructions from the sideline could confuse the players aswell.

[Pinks]

They play at 01's level. I agree that the training drills are the foundation for what happens on the pitch but if, for example, the left back is playing 5 yards behind the rest of the defence then surely the coach sees that and rectifies it immediately?

If you just leave the kids to sort it out while they concede goal after goal then their confidence plummets.

[Wilky1878]

They play at 01's level. I agree that the training drills are the foundation for what happens on the pitch but if, for example, the left back is playing 5 yards behind the rest of the defence then surely the coach sees that and rectifies it immediately?

If you just leave the kids to sort it out while they concede goal after goal then their confidence plummets.

Ah, that should be rectified. It can be quite frustrating seeing things like that too, doesn't take much for a coach just to let the boy know to "watch his line" or something like that.