Deeboy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Make what reference to Speroni, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Alan Shearer only won 1 league title in his career, does this mean he was unsuccessful? No. Because he won a title. 'Given enjoyed a long career in the top flight of English football. He finally tasted success at Manchester City when he won an FA Cup winners medal. Despite not having played a single game of that campaign.' Setting a low bar there, boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Alan Shearer only won 1 league title in his career, does this mean he was unsuccessful? Yes. Tomasz Kusczak has won 3. He's had a much more successful career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Yes. Tomasz Kusczak has won 3. He's had a much more successful career. He won four, actually. He's infinitely more successful than Shay Given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeboy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Yeah, I'm sure Kusczak will be disappointed when he tells his grandchildren he won the league three times whilst playing for Man Utd. What about you, Granda Shay? Yeah I played and lost quite a lot of games with Newcastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 He won four, actually. He's infinitely more successful than Shay Given. Im sure Given would love to swap careers with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeboy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 of course he would! More money, more prestige and more medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Tomasz: "I wish I'd played a bit more." Shay: "I wish I'd won loads more." I'm sure he would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 What a lot of pish. Man United were successful, Kusczak was not. The most appearances he made in the one season was 9, he only got his medals because he was a reserve goalkeeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cille Mhernaig Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 To weigh in on this debate, the correct answer regarding Given and successful career is 'in comparison' Compare Given to Steve Harper, Given has played double the amount of games as Harper, has 133 international caps to Harper's 0, has 1 FA cup winners medal to Harper's 0, has 1 Newcastle POTY trophy to Harper's 0. Compared to Steve Harper, Shay Given HAS had a successful career. Let's now compare Given to Buffon, Buffon has played (according to wikipedia) 170 more club games than Given (all bar 1 season in the top flight), has 156 International caps (23 more than Given), Has won 8 league titles (7 Seria A 1 Seria B) to Given's 0, won 2 Coppa Italia's to Given's 1 FA cup, won 7 supercoppa italiana's to Given's 0 Charity Shields, Won 1 world Cup to Given's 0, Won 1 UEFA cup to Given's 0, a boatload of individual awards that I can't be arsed listing to Given's 2005/06 Newcastle United POTY. Compared to Gianluigi Buffon, Shay Given hasn't had a successful career. What can't be argued is Given has had a good long career at the highest level in English football and Internationally, but to say it was highly successful, compared to others such as Buffon as shown and even Kusczak as mentioned by others I'm afraid it is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 What a lot of pish. Man United were successful, Kusczak was not. The most appearances he made in the one season was 9, he only got his medals because he was a reserve goalkeeper. That's Shay's FA Cup winning medal oot the windae. He's even less of a success than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killienick Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Surely success is measured by your achievements relative to your goals? Shay achieved much in his career in terms of appearances, records and top flight longevity. If his objectives were to play in a top league and for his country for so long then he was undoubtedly successful as he certainly achieved this. If he measures success through trophies and titles then he is not successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Is Rob Green a successful goalkeeper? What about Ben Foster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 All keepers at the top level have had really successful careers to varying degrees, the amount of medals the teams they've played for have won doesn't define how successful they've been personally though. That is the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killienick Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 All keepers at the top level have had really successful careers to varying degrees, the amount of medals the teams they've played for have won doesn't define how successful they've been personally though. That is the point. So by that reckoning, Dundee United have had a successful season by virtue of the fact that they competed in the top flight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 That's Shay's FA Cup winning medal oot the windae. He's even less of a success than I thought. Well that sums it up in a nutshell doesn't it. Shay Given never played a part in that cup win but there he is with a medal for it. You can't use the medals that teams and clubs have won to define an individual's success. It's like the people that say Maradona is better than Messi until Messi wins Argentina a World Cup. It's daft logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Well that sums it up in a nutshell doesn't it. It does, yes. Shay Given didn't have a "highly successful" career in English football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeboy Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 So we now measure success by appearances? Righty oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cille Mhernaig Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 All keepers at the top level have had really successful careers to varying degrees, the amount of medals the teams they've played for have won doesn't define how successful they've been personally though. That is the point. Stuart Taylor was at Arsenal, Villa (before they got super shite) & Man City, at the top level of English football, won quite a few medals but I would never for a minute say he has had a 'really successful career'. A good career as a 2nd/3rd choice keeper yes, but a successful career? Not a chance, the 3 years where he played zero games at man City but still picked up a premier league medal and a FA cup medal (ironically making him more successful than Shay both over their whole careers and their respective City careers) proves this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 It does, yes. Shay Given didn't have a "highly successful" career in English football. I really don't agree. I think you're wrong and speaking pish. There's no point going on about it any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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