cfcuk Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Firstly, the "left and right backs" you write about could as well be Peter MacDonald and David Gormley. Until they were played as full-backs, Johnstone and McNiff had no more claim than anyone else to be considered as such; and much less than most, one could argue. McNiff played for a short while as a left-back for Annan. He came there as a midfielder, and found his calling as a centre-half in time. Stirling fans will read this and wince: the idea of Johnstone as a full-back is a laughable one to them, for good reason. Oliver hasn't played as a full-back/wing-back in his current spell with Clyde, you're correct. He did put in some comfortable shifts there last time round, however; he operated on the flank, then, better than Johnstone and McNiff have any hope of doing now. Virtually every shift those two have put in as FBs/WBs has been muck. This isn't an opinion: the highlights packages demonstrate this unambiguously. They are the chinks in our armour. Bottom-line: Oliver knows how to defend and that makes him better than Johnstone; he's agile: which makes him better than McNiff, who he's also a good bit quicker than across the ground. He's a strong lad, another edge he has on Johnstone, and it's in that respect he's improved since returning to Clyde: he's clearly bulked up. What he had last time round was versatility: he's got a decent brain and can patch-in in quite a few spots. Yes: he's a poor centre-half, I agree. He's too wee for it. No argument. We're letting go a player who we've reason to believe can deliver, and has done before, who's improved himself since returning, all only in order to stick with two lower-mediocre stand-in types, who have no more claim to be "full-backs" or "wing-backs" than he does. Less, in my view. You're arguing for the sake of it here. Nobody would have Johnstone and/or McNiff as full-backs if they thought there was a plausible alternative worth a try. Except Barry, apparently. Oliver knows how to defend? Certainly hid that we'll in games he has played in this season No harm but look at the teams and level he has played at still can't understand why we signed him 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Paulo Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, haufdaft said: You're probably right about me arguing for the sake of it. Johnston is poor at right back and McNiff hasn't been great. I just can't get your insistence that Oliver is better based on games played many seasons ago and the few minutes played at full back since his return. I trust the manager in this regard. He brought him into the club and loses a wee bit of face letting him go out on loan so early in the season. I don't think he would do this on a whim. Quite easy to tell, really. Watch Johnstone when a winger confronts him. He'll jockey him right down the line until he's guaranteed a corner or a cross. That's feckless. You or I could do it. It's the sign of someone who isn't an experienced defender. As for McNiff, he just isn't the player for full-back; he's too cumbersome and not used to it. So obvious to watch him: caught out of position, leaving space behind him, being behind the next deepest defender in the line. It's asking for it. His height's useful, that's about as much as you can say for him as a FB. He'll get a goal or two from corners. But if you go and look at Oliver in a Clyde shirt, you'll at least see aggression, absent from Johnstone's game, and a reasonably quick player there, who has plenty experience of defending, and that puts him head-and-shoulders above those two as a pick for full-back. We can all be behind Barry, but blind faith isn't warranted. There's any number of points to prove that. Steven Brisbane, most saliently. Edited November 12, 2016 by Sao Paulo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeton Clyde Boy Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I'm sure Miller was one of QP's better players a few seasons ago ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullyWeeLad Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Just met Dean Sheils in costa, said he is signing a contract until the end of the season next week. What a signing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde01 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Quite easy to tell, really. Watch Johnstone when a winger confronts him. He'll jockey him right down the line until he's guaranteed a corner or a cross. That's feckless. You or I could do it. It's the sign of someone who isn't an experienced defender. As for McNiff, he just isn't the player for full-back; he's too cumbersome and not used to it. So obvious to watch him: caught out of position, leaving space behind him, being behind the next deepest defender in the line. It's asking for it. His height's useful, that's about as much as you can say for him as a FB. He'll get a goal or two from corners. But if you go and look at Oliver in a Clyde shirt, you'll at least see aggression, absent from Johnstone's game, and a reasonably quick player there, who has plenty experience of defending, and that puts him head-and-shoulders above those two as a pick for full-back. We can all be behind Barry, but blind faith isn't warranted. There's any number of points to prove that. Steven Brisbane, most saliently. Are you Michael Oliver? Or his agent? Or a family member?Listening to you, it's like you are describing paolo maldini. Oliver is equally pish or worse than our current options. Hence why he came from the lowland league and has now gone back there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Paulo Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Clyde01 said: Are you Michael Oliver? Or his agent? Or a family member? Listening to you, it's like you are describing paolo maldini. Oliver is equally pish or worse than our current options. Hence why he came from the lowland league and has now gone back there. Oliver's better than Maldini. Never met the lad. Don't care a jot for his career. Saw him play enough to know he's better than Johnstone or McNiff. Tell Barry what you've told me. He's the one that'll have to confront with having signed a player from outside the senior game and watch him go back to it (again). He's a specialist at this. Meanwhile David Marsh has jumped a division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Paulo Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Nauseating, isn't it? And it's exactly what led to Brexit: ordinary people second-guessing professionals. How very dare we. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfcuk Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Oliver's better than Maldini. Never met the lad. Don't care a jot for his career. Saw him play enough to know he's better than Johnstone or McNiff. Tell Barry what you've told me. He's the one that'll have to confront with having signed a player from outside the senior game and watch him go back to it (again). He's a specialist at this. Meanwhile David Marsh has jumped a division. Last six games we have only conceded 4 goals with oliver in the team we lost three in one game and he had to be substituted No harm to guy mid table lowland probably his level If he is as good a defender Why do you think he is not playing in the Scottish league ? Or do you know more about football than the entire league 2 management teams put together:) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Paulo Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) Well, if I disagree, I must do, mustn't I? NB: I take the point that he's not a good centre-half, I'd never play him there - he was played at CB when we shipped the goals you refer to. Edited November 13, 2016 by Sao Paulo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Paulo Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 11 hours ago, Günther said: We'll get your application in when Barry chucks it then, you obviously know better than him then. You're seriously starting to piss me off... Sounds like a threat. You know where I sit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Paulo Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) I know you're not mate. I'm at it. But come on, you're telling me you're pissed off with me for disagreeing with the manager? We've all spent a chunk of our lives doing this... Edited November 13, 2016 by Sao Paulo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 That's it guys. Argue amongst yourself and self implode. One less team to worry about in the maroons bid for league 2 glory 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfcuk Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Well, if I disagree, I must do, mustn't I? NB: I take the point that he's not a good centre-half, I'd never play him there - he was played at CB when we shipped the goals you refer to. That's where he was playing with the colts All about opinions but I really doubt oliver would improve the team but more importantly so does our manager 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only one David Marsh Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Sao Paulo said: I know you're not mate. I'm at it. But come on, you're telling me you're pissed off with me for disagreeing with the manager? We've all spent a chunk of our lives doing this... Your lucky he hasn't invited you round to his for a jacuzzi with him and his wife 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Your lucky he hasn't invited you round to his for a jacuzzi with him and his wife Sao Paulo will only go if Oliver is invited too and gets to sit on the left hand side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haufdaft Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 That's where he was playing with the colts If Oliver is better than the full backs at Clyde, a League two top four team, why has no other teams in the league taken him on loan?He's Lowland League class. Simple as that.Why would Ferguson let someone go on loan that's better than the incumbents? Personal dislike? Or perhaps he agrees with many Clyde fans that he's an honest pro who isn't good enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgeton Clyde Boy Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I agree ^ wasn't good enough before not good enough now, strange signing I think, you'd think there would be a better player to pick from in that position from the lowland league 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Paulo Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Jack Burton said: Sao Paulo will only go if Oliver is invited too and gets to sit on the left hand side. Would prefer the right. It's his strongest. Moreover, McNeil has already shown himself to be useful on the left (against Forfar at Broadwood); plenty good delivery from him that day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Paulo Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, haufdaft said: If Oliver is better than the full backs at Clyde, a League two top four team, why has no other teams in the league taken him on loan? He's Lowland League class. Simple as that. Why would Ferguson let someone go on loan that's better than the incumbents? Personal dislike? Or perhaps he agrees with many Clyde fans that he's an honest pro who isn't good enough. It's obviously important to you that opinions find endorsement with professional managers; everything else can be held in contempt. Indulging your prejudice for a moment, in point of fact, it is true that two other senior teams wanted Oliver in the summer, but he chose Clyde over those. See the Clyde website for evidence. There's an also an insight, in the link, that Barry considered him "100% a centre half". McNeil - not 100% a centre half; a right-back, held in great esteem at Berwick as such - has generally been preferred to him as a centre half. A strange outcome. I'd just like it if the lad was given a go ahead of Johnstone on the right. As for your other question, "why has [sic] no other teams in the league taken him on loan?", I've no idea. Why Ferguson would want to let a player who, presumably, he regards as at least somewhat useful go on loan to a team in this division is another question I could put back to you. Why didn't Gus McPherson loan Darren Miller to another League One club? Might it be that he doesn't want to abet competitors? Who knows. Edited November 13, 2016 by Sao Paulo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfcuk Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 It's obviously important to you that opinions find endorsement with professional managers; everything else can be held in contempt. Indulging your prejudice for a moment, in point of fact, it is true that two other senior teams wanted Oliver in the summer, but he chose Clyde over those. See the Clyde website for evidence. There's an also an insight, in the link, that Barry considered him "100% a centre half". McNeil - not 100% a centre half; a right-back, held in great esteem at Berwick as such - has generally been preferred to him as a centre half. A strange outcome. I'd just like it if the lad was given a go ahead of Johnstone on the right. As for your other question, "why has [sic] no other teams in the league taken him on loan?", I've no idea. Why Ferguson would want to let a player who, presumably, he regards as at least somewhat useful go on loan to a team in this division is another question I could put back to you. Why didn't Gus McPherson loan Darren Miller to another League One club? Might it be that he doesn't want to abet competitors? Who knows. Time will tell I'm sure he will leave in January so let's see what teams come in for him You do seem to be the only one who rates him doesn't mean your wrong I just haven't seen anything in the games he played to see why we would retain him As for the manager signing him all managers make wrong signings Look at some of the rocketd Alex Ferguson signed still considered best manager 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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