English football , money , tv etc

[forever_blue]

Had the conversation before a few times on here but hoping to get a decent conversation going here 

obviously right now and for the best part of a decade or more english football and the premier league particularly has been in a boom with money now in quite unbeleivable figures floating about regulalry for signings , tv deals etc . My question simply is a bust inevetable at some point in the future ? 

[gannonball]

I would say so, but I said the same about 5 years ago when they were edging towards the 1 billion mark for TV rights, it's gone up about 5 fold since.Mental.

[Ross.]

At some point it has to at least slow down, if not implode completely. A lot will depend on how the clubs spend the money coming to them. Italian football went through a similar boom in the late 80's through to the late 90's and then went tits up when the TV deal went from collective to individual. A lot of clubs hadn't expected or prepared for that to happen and the game almost collapsed there. I'm not sure the same thing will happen in England, but if the TV money stagnates or drops then it there could be a few clubs with big problems.

From everything I have read though it is more likely that the English game will collapse in the lower leagues. The level of debt carried by some teams in the Championship, League One and League Two is astonishing, particularly in the Championship.

Is there an up to date "Debt table" available for the leagues?

[Bully Wee Villa]

I think that the Premier League will be the victim of its own (financial) success.

I never thought a European Super League would happen as the likes of Barcelona and Juventus are happier being able to piss all over most of their domestic competition.

Now though, these clubs will eventually be making less per year than Bournemouth (if they stay up) and I reckon they'll see ESL as the solution.

When it happens English football will have the choice to ignore it and carry on without European football, which would severely dent the attractiveness of the league and their viewing figures, or to join the ESL, effectively relinquishing English clubs' status as the wealthiest in the continent.

[dogmc]

Guess a lot depends on the continuing profitability of the tv companies and how long they can keep the exclusivity of the tv rights in the face of other media platforms. I'm sure a few epl chairmen were clenching during the phone hacking crisis n news international n sky's share price dropped. There's no such thing as a company too big to fail.

[forever_blue]

1 hour ago, Ross. said:

At some point it has to at least slow down, if not implode completely. A lot will depend on how the clubs spend the money coming to them. Italian football went through a similar boom in the late 80's through to the late 90's and then went tits up when the TV deal went from collective to individual. A lot of clubs hadn't expected or prepared for that to happen and the game almost collapsed there. I'm not sure the same thing will happen in England, but if the TV money stagnates or drops then it there could be a few clubs with big problems.

From everything I have read though it is more likely that the English game will collapse in the lower leagues. The level of debt carried by some teams in the Championship, League One and League Two is astonishing, particularly in the Championship.

Is there an up to date "Debt table" available for the leagues?

http://www.express.co.uk/pictures/sport/6396/Every-Premier-League-club-debt-revealed-sportgalleries/Chelsea-139227

This one if from 2016 

 

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/146216-championship-club-club

 

this is a championship one from 2015 , couldn't find a more up to date one 

 

some astonishing figures going about in both 

[Salvo Montalbano]

As long as people continue to pay for Sky and BT, it'll continue. I cancelled my Sky Sports subscription a couple of years back - while I used to watch pretty much every match going from the Premiership down to the Conference, I  was finding I was only watching one game a month if that. I'm sure I'm not the only one suffering from football fatigue these days with the possibility of watching two or three games a day, seven days a week? I've got BT with my broadband and watch the occasional Champion's League game and the odd Italian game on a Sunday and that's as much as I can cope with these days. If I didn't get BT free I'd probably bin it tbh. If more people felt the same, the TV companies would have to reduce their payments and it might calm down. Sadly these days the 'need' to watch games, to follow the big clubs, to see the star names (in sport, music, film, whatever) is so high that this day won't come for a very long time, if ever.

[forever_blue]

9 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

As long as people continue to pay for Sky and BT, it'll continue. I cancelled my Sky Sports subscription a couple of years back - while I used to watch pretty much every match going from the Premiership down to the Conference, I  was finding I was only watching one game a month if that. I'm sure I'm not the only one suffering from football fatigue these days with the possibility of watching two or three games a day, seven days a week? I've got BT with my broadband and watch the occasional Champion's League game and the odd Italian game on a Sunday and that's as much as I can cope with these days. If I didn't get BT free I'd probably bin it tbh. If more people felt the same, the TV companies would have to reduce their payments and it might calm down. Sadly these days the 'need' to watch games, to follow the big clubs, to see the star names (in sport, music, film, whatever) is so high that this day won't come for a very long time, if ever.

I should probably cancel sky as well , go to all rangers games so dont need it for that and prefer to watch the super Sunday in the pub with some pals and a few pints .  Also fed up of the amount of premiership games you tune into that turns into utter dross , and then on the odd occasion you do get a smashing game ,the first thing sky and BT will hit out with is the "only in the premier league " chat as if it is the only league that provides interesting 3-3 draws 

[forever_blue]

40 minutes ago, throbber said:

It's absolutely devastating for the morality of the game and I feel totally alienated from it all - are there any average punters out there who see all this money as a good thing in these times of austerity? If we have a super European league who can afford to go across Europe for games every other weekend? Who can afford to go to all the away games now as it is anyway with the price of tickets on top of travel etc? Absolutely mental, football has been ruined by capitalism.

No it isn't good in my opinion , a European league is a nightmare scenario , end of the game as we know it completely if that ever comes to the fore . The champions league is already turning Into the barca , real , Munich and English top 4 show with everything else just seeming like a sideshow . In reality I would like to see the champions league going back to its original purpose , a tournament for champions of various leagues to pit their wits against each other with a knockout formula . This would then improve the quality and reputation of the uefa cup by having second/third etc place and cup winners thrown into that with the winner automatically in next seasons European cup regardless of league position . 

 

This is is just an idea I have , probably numerous loopholes and flaws you can spot but you understand the point I am making

[ICTChris]

In 1988/89 you could watch Arsenal, that years English champions, for £5.  Now the cheapest tickets for Arsenal's category A games are around £50.

Arsenal's average attendance in 1989 was 33,713.  It's average last season was 59,944.

The overall average for top flight English football was 20,000 in 1989.  Last season it was 36,000.

For all the talk of fans being priced out of the game crowds are larger than they were in days of cheaper tickets.  I think perhaps the demographics of football support has changed for big clubs - can't see too many teenagers or young people going with their mates, the way they did in the 1980s.

Also, people say that the TV money can't go on etc.  Sky's subscriber base continues to grow and the company remains hugely profitable.  They don't pay £4bn for the football rights for fun.  It's a business investment, companies pay what they think rights are worth.  

[ICTChris]

I remember getting the Topical Times Football annual in 1989 and I'm sure there was an article in it about the 'inevitable European superleague'.

There will never be a European superleague that clubs compete in over their domestic league.  It will never happen.  The big viewing figures in England are for domestic English football NOT the Champions League, La Liga or anything else.

[dogmc]

In 1988/89 you could watch Arsenal, that years English champions, for £5.  Now the cheapest tickets for Arsenal's category A games are around £50.

Arsenal's average attendance in 1989 was 33,713.  It's average last season was 59,944.

The overall average for top flight English football was 20,000 in 1989.  Last season it was 36,000.

For all the talk of fans being priced out of the game crowds are larger than they were in days of cheaper tickets.  I think perhaps the demographics of football support has changed for big clubs - can't see too many teenagers or young people going with their mates, the way they did in the 1980s.

Also, people say that the TV money can't go on etc.  Sky's subscriber base continues to grow and the company remains hugely profitable.  They don't pay £4bn for the football rights for fun.  It's a business investment, companies pay what they think rights are worth.  

Be interesting to know how big a proportion of the big clubs average attendances are made up by the tourist fan market. Your spot on that the demographic has changed radically....how sustainable that will be over a decade or two will remain to be seen.

[forever_blue]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

In 1988/89 you could watch Arsenal, that years English champions, for £5.  Now the cheapest tickets for Arsenal's category A games are around £50.

Arsenal's average attendance in 1989 was 33,713.  It's average last season was 59,944.

The overall average for top flight English football was 20,000 in 1989.  Last season it was 36,000.

For all the talk of fans being priced out of the game crowds are larger than they were in days of cheaper tickets.  I think perhaps the demographics of football support has changed for big clubs - can't see too many teenagers or young people going with their mates, the way they did in the 1980s.

Also, people say that the TV money can't go on etc.  Sky's subscriber base continues to grow and the company remains hugely profitable.  They don't pay £4bn for the football rights for fun.  It's a business investment, companies pay what they think rights are worth.  

I am glad in Scotland we still have that culture of young guys going to the football for a couple of ore and post match pints , but your right , not only is the age gap different at these grounds than it was in the eighties and 90s , the demographs are probably different with I would guess many of the home crowd at Emirates , Stamford bridge and old Trafford being either tourists or middle class family days out  ,

 

Interestingly only last week or so I  was actually reading a leicster forum last week in regards to their game v celtic and a lot of them were discussing what they felt was a dissapointing atmosphere from their away support and many felt that the crowd over the last season has began to be invaded by bandwagon jumpers obviously on the back of their good fortunes , some interestingly even stated they preferred the away days in the championship than some of the crowd which were there toward the end of the season  with their wee clapper things