AUFC90 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, RedRob72 said: I honestly think May is principal led as I believe is Sturgeon, wee Nip could have offered co-operation and advice ( I've said before she is a formidable politician) on Brexit strategy, but she's between a rock and a hard place in that she can't be seen to take a backward step with more fervent Nationalists. Why ? She doesn't want Brexit and neither do the people that voted her in. She's sticking to her principles unlike someone like Davidson who would forego any of her beliefs if it is politically expedient to do so. It's got f**k all to do with nationalism. Brexit has EVERYTHING to do with nationalism. Not wanting to be part of the single market has EVERYTHING to do with nationalism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: I honestly think May is principal led as I believe is Sturgeon, wee Nip could have offered co-operation and advice ( I've said before she is a formidable politician) on Brexit strategy, but she's between a rock and a hard place in that she can't be seen to take a backward step with more fervent Nationalists. To what end? What influence does she have on May or the rest of her cabinet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: wee Nip could have offered co-operation and advice ( I've said before she is a formidable politician) . Exactly. The Dailymailites r gonna need someone to roast when brexit cluster unfolds. Canny have a tory pm gettin the blame. can we. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: I honestly think May is principal led as I believe is Sturgeon, wee Nip could have offered co-operation and advice ( I've said before she is a formidable politician) on Brexit strategy, but she's between a rock and a hard place in that she can't be seen to take a backward step with more fervent Nationalists. If May had principles she would have been far more vocal in her views during the EU referendum. She was as quiet as she could get away with, sitting on the sidelines offering minimal support for the side that looked most likely to win whilst manoeuvring herself into a position whatever the outcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Sturgeon, quite sensibly is staying well clear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 To what end? What influence does she have on May or the rest of her cabinet? None at all when she's continually threatened a disruptive 2nd Ref, without even being given to the opportunity to be 'involved'! A similar stance has been taken with SF who are now looking to ditch the JMC.As PM, would you welcome that with the amount of political disruption already engulfing you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 minute ago, RedRob72 said: None at all when she's continually threatened a disruptive 2nd Ref, without even being given to the opportunity to be 'involved'! A similar stance has been taken with SF who are now looking to ditch the JMC.As PM, would you welcome that with the amount of political disruption already engulfing you? If she was really bothered about an unwelcome 2nd referendum she could at least try and accommodate Scotland. Her and her party would rather jeer at our elected representatives though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 If May had principles she would have been far more vocal in her views during the EU referendum. She was as quiet as she could get away with, sitting on the sidelines offering minimal support for the side that looked most likely to win whilst manoeuvring herself into a position whatever the outcome. Probably thought (or advised) that the middle ground was the best option, where she could work with protagonists on both sides as a cabinet minister, depending upon the result? Did she really think she'd end up with complete responsibility as PM? I'm really not sure? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: None at all when she's continually threatened a disruptive 2nd Ref, without even being given to the opportunity to be 'involved'! A similar stance has been taken with SF who are now looking to ditch the JMC. As PM, would you welcome that with the amount of political disruption already engulfing you? No, hypothetically, what does our obedient, forelock tugging Scottish FM get by being obsequious. How does that gain traction with May? what does the Scottish FM have to trade for genuine access to Brexit negotiations? Edited January 19, 2017 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 If she was really bothered about an unwelcome 2nd referendum she could at least try and accommodate Scotland. Her and her party would rather jeer at our elected representatives though. I can't argue with that, but there's plenty of room for 'accommodation' on both sides of the divide. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, RedRob72 said: I can't argue with that, but there's plenty of room for 'accommodation' on both sides of the divide. I think you're giving the right wing of the tory party far too much credit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Probably thought (or advised) that the middle ground was the best option, where she could work with protagonists on both sides as a cabinet minister, depending upon the result? Did she really think she'd end up with complete responsibility as PM? I'm really not sure? Politicians with principles put their heads above the parapet on important issues. Politicians with ambitions do what May did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I think you're giving the right wing of the tory party far too much credit. Perhaps, but the same could be said for Uber Nats within the SNP? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Politicians with principles put their heads above the parapet on important issues. Politicians with ambitions do what May did. Well she's got that responsibility now, and she's going to need all the help she can get. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, RedRob72 said: Perhaps, but the same could be said for Uber Nats within the SNP? Not really, she's doing what she's elected to do. Fact is that Scotlands status as either being in the EU but out of the UK or in the UK but out the EU needs resolved and it's looking more and more likely like a referendum is the only way to do that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Not really, she's doing what she's elected to do. Fact is that Scotlands status as either being in the EU but out of the UK or in the UK but out the EU needs resolved and it's looking more and more likely like a referendum is the only way to do that. Aye fair enough then, call it and bring it on. The current picture will only strengthen the Unionist vote in Scotland, I'm ok with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, RedRob72 said: Aye fair enough then, call it and bring it on. The current picture will only strengthen the Unionist vote in Scotland, I'm ok with that. Bollocks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Aye fair enough then, call it and bring it on. The current picture will only strengthen the Unionist vote in Scotland, I'm ok with that. Really is slit your wrist stuff reading this. I know I keep saying this but do you honestly not realise how desperate you look here posting stuff like this? Jesus. When independence happens, be it 3/10/20 year, you're going to be an absolute shell of a man and I'm gutted that I'll not be able to witness your reaction when the result is finalised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: I can't argue with that, but there's plenty of room for 'accommodation' on both sides of the divide. No, this is fundamentally a transaction between two parties. You have to have something to trade, the more people who have influence over a decision, the less influence any single person has on the outcome of that decision. Why then, would May give away some of that influence to Sturgeon for free? Someone outside the party, outside the government, someone she can't otherwise put a collar on? To be nice? On point of principle? Being nice and being a doormat, going cap in hand to Number 10 is not going to warm the cockles of May's heart, it's not going to turn her into a welcoming host for all of Sturgeon's concerns regarding Scotland. The more interested parties May is bidden to for favours over Brexit, the less room for maneuver she has in negotiating. It means that if it came to seling out Scotland in favour of the City traders in London, she couldn't, so why would she put herself in that position? The one thing the First Minister has to trade, is the threat of independence. Of your terrible unwelcome referendum, which as you freely admit, May could do without, what with all that Brexit "nonsense". Why wouldn't Sturgeon invoke that particular demon, in order to try and get a seat at the table? And if they don't, then go ahead and call an IndyRef. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob the tank Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Politicians with principles put their heads above the parapet on important issues. Politicians with ambitions do what May did. Not forgetting Ruthie too.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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