Detournement Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, welshbairn said: What's undemocratic about having another referendum when the actual choices become clear? The 2017 election result where the two dominant parties committed to leaving the EU in their manifestos (and got a combined majority of votes in Scotland to save the but Scotland mob some effort). If the result isn't implemented we'll end up with something like Trump where a genuine narrative of betrayal is used to enable the far right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, Granny Danger said: It might be the case that many folk in the U.K. would accept a hard border as a price worth paying but the EU will back Ireland and there will be no deal. And then there will be a hard border! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I think it's probably best to accept that leave won the vote, it was a democratic vote, so we should accept the result and get on with it. I voted Yes and I voted Remain. I was on the losing side of both referendums. Above all else I am a democrat so I respect the result. Did you vote to leave the Single Market? Did you vote to leave the Customs Union? That's what many of these key arguments are over and a lot of Brexiters spout absolute pish over it. Saw one moron on BBC's HYS banging on today that Andorra, Monaco the Vatican City, San Marino and Switzerland didn't need the EU to carry out trade. They were obviously completely unaware of the fact that 4 of the 5 are either in the Single Market or in the Customs Union and the other isn't a democracy that could join the EU. Your average Brexiter is a head in the sand moron who is more akin to a football fan with their " but we won" mantra. Their win is like the Zombies nine in a row - completely worthless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: For those of us less familiar with these matters what’s the “Black Lodge”? Royal Black Preceptory 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, moncaidh ruadh said: Which referendum? Which side? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) Brexit supporting MPs are morons, part 9345 : Edited October 24, 2018 by Carl Cort's Hamstring 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandstand Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, Detournement said: And then there will be a hard border! And the UK will then have unilaterally torn up an international treaty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, Detournement said: The 2017 election result where the two dominant parties committed to leaving the EU in their manifestos (and got a combined majority of votes in Scotland to save the but Scotland mob some effort). If the result isn't implemented we'll end up with something like Trump where a genuine narrative of betrayal is used to enable the far right. There were a few other issues in the 2017 election. With Labour as mealy mouthed as ever on the issue you can't call it an enhanced mandate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 36 minutes ago, moncaidh ruadh said: I think it's probably best to accept that leave won the vote, it was a democratic vote, so we should accept the result and get on with it. I voted Yes and I voted Remain. I was on the losing side of both referendums. Above all else I am a democrat so I respect the result. Maybe I could cope with that if there was then a plan for how to go about it but there is no plan and never was. It was all wishful thinking. "We can have our cake and eat it." "They need us more than we need them." "No hard border in Ireland." "An extra £350 million for the NHS." The Tories can't even agree amongst themselves as to what sort of Brexit they want. As soon as anyone comes close to agreeing anything - there are immediately cries of betrayal. The referendum should ask: "So what do you think of our clumsy effort and do you still want to go ahead with all this?" Remember these are the same brilliant negotiators who are going to deliver all sorts of wonderful trade deals elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, welshbairn said: There were a few other issues in the 2017 election. With Labour as mealy mouthed as ever on the issue you can't call it an enhanced mandate. I'm not saying it's an enhanced mandate but the explicitly pro EU party didn't do very well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Detournement said: I'm not saying it's an enhanced mandate but the explicitly pro EU party didn't do very well. I'm not sure you could call the Lib Dems a credible party anymore. They're even suggesting a non member comes in to run it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 I'm not sure you could call the Lib Dems a credible party anymore. They're even suggesting a non member comes in to run it. It worked for the US Republicans Sort of 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, topcat(The most tip top) said: It worked for the US Republicans Sort of Almost worked for the Democrats too, if that sneaky Hillary didn't nick the campaigning money and DNC personnel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I'm not sure you could call the Lib Dems a credible party anymore. They're even suggesting a non member comes in to run it. An example of that was in Canada, where Pierre Trudeau joined the Liberal Party in 1965 and became Prime Minister in 1968. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Fullerene said: An example of that was in Canada, where Pierre Trudeau joined the Liberal Party in 1965 and became Prime Minister in 1968. Michael Ignatieff tried something similar. Whatever happened to him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moncaidh ruadh Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 37 minutes ago, Gaz said: Any chance of answering the question? Cut off for what? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moncaidh ruadh Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 34 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Did you vote to leave the Single Market? Did you vote to leave the Customs Union? That's what many of these key arguments are over and a lot of Brexiters spout absolute pish over it. Saw one moron on BBC's HYS banging on today that Andorra, Monaco the Vatican City, San Marino and Switzerland didn't need the EU to carry out trade. They were obviously completely unaware of the fact that 4 of the 5 are either in the Single Market or in the Customs Union and the other isn't a democracy that could join the EU. Your average Brexiter is a head in the sand moron who is more akin to a football fan with their " but we won" mantra. Their win is like the Zombies nine in a row - completely worthless. I like you voted Remain sadly we lost the vote. I am a democrat I accept the result. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Michael Ignatieff is running a university for George Soros in Hungary apparently after failing to become prime minister. His Blood and Belonging series about nationalism on the BBC was really good, so suspect he is very strong as an academic but he didn't quite cut it as a politician from what I saw sometimes on Canadian TV as he lacked any kind of rapport with the average voter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moncaidh ruadh Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 33 minutes ago, Principal Flutie said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992 You think it should be run again? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, moncaidh ruadh said: You think it should be run again? I'm leaning towards yes, but a bit. It's certainly a more credible argument than simply saying "they won" over and over again with no real depth at all. Especially given the manner of the win, and the clusterfuck that followed. I'm also not so easily willing to see so many lives ruined and to see all sorts of rights up in the air just because of one vote that many people didn't fully appreciate. But you carry on with your wee bubble where nothing matters but a vote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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