Bishop Briggs Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Oh fuckoff, you should be ashamed of every pompous, ignorant, pedantic post you make. Still on the swally! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: The Vote Leave campaign could not bind any Government. Even if it's campaigns claims are not deliverable, the referendum was not fraudulent. Voters have had to take a view on both sides' arguments before voting. That's the nature of referenda, including the devolution and independence. If the Yes campaign could not deliver the White Paper's claims after a vote for independence, would Better Together been entitled to claim that the referendum was fraudulent and a "replay" was needed? Not in my opinion. Ted Heath claimed in the 1975 that a vote for the Common Market would not lead to Parliament losing its supremacy. The Lisbon Treaty gave that supremacy to the EU but we did not get a vote on that. The French and Dutch voted against the EU constitution but their wishes were ignored. Without comment on the notion of electoral fraud, I don't think you can compare potential failures to deliver the white paper's promises regarding the future with repeatedly making a statement which is false whilst knowing it to be false. Edited January 24, 2017 by The OP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, The OP said: Without comment on the notion of electoral fraud, I don't think you can compare potential failures to deliver the white paper's promises regarding the future with repeatedly making a statement which is false whilst knowing it to be false. Contrary to the White Paper, the EU Vice-President wrote the Scottish Parliament and bluntly stated that Scotland would leave the EU if voted for independence. It was a great reason to vote for real independence, not EU subservience. Yet the Yes campaign repeated the lie that an independent Scotland could stay in the EU without having to go through the application process in the Lisbon Treaty. It was repeatedly making a statement that it knew to be false. A Yes vote was a vote for Scotexit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: Contrary to the White Paper, the EU Vice-President wrote the Scottish Parliament and bluntly stated that Scotland would leave the EU if voted for independence. It was a great reason to vote for real independence, not EU subservience. Yet the Yes campaign repeated the lie that an independent Scotland could stay in the EU without having to go through the application process in the Lisbon Treaty. It was repeatedly making a statement that it knew to be false. A Yes vote was a vote for Scotexit. The "EU Vice President" (as you put it) would not be in a position to deny or admit Scotland as a member and the situation was unprecedented, so still not analogous to painting a known falsehood on the side of a bus and touring it around the country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Laura Keunssberg seething with every syllable on BBC news. She just can't believe this ruling today has played into the Tories' hands! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, The OP said: The "EU Vice President" (as you put it) would not be in a position to deny or admit Scotland as a member and the situation was unprecedented, so still not analogous to painting a known falsehood on the side of a bus and touring it around the country. Of course. The EU Vice-President was stating the legal position under the Treaties. The SNP Chair of the Committee sought clarification on the claims in the White Paper. Just read the correspondence http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf The Treaties cannot be negotiated or amended without the consent of all Members States. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Hope Maddie's well. A bit of dark comic genius. You should feel very proud 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, Bishop Briggs said: Of course. The EU Vice-President was stating the legal position under the Treaties. The SNP Chair of the Committee sought clarification on the claims in the White Paper. Just read the correspondence http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf The Treaties cannot be negotiated or amended without the consent of all Members States. Is the Vice President of the European Commission "all members states"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, McSpreader said: Laura Keunssberg seething with every syllable on BBC news. She just can't believe this ruling today has played into the Tories' hands! A short Bill, enforced by the Parliament Act if necessary, should be sufficient. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: A bit of dark comic genius. You should feel very proud Dark Comedy is how I saw it............so forgiven.....but right on the edge, tbh!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, The OP said: Is the Vice President of the European Commission "all members states"? No. The VP stated the legal position under the Treaties. The EU's lawyers would have checked and approved the letter before it was sent The Member States exercise their powers in the Council, the decision-making body. The Commission administers the decisions of the Council. Donald Tusk is the President of the Council. Juncker is the President of the Commission. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: No. The VP stated the legal position under the Treaties. The EU's lawyers would have checked and approved the letter before it was sent The Member States exercise their powers in the Council, the decision-making body. The Commission administers the decisions of the Council. Donald Tusk is the President of the Council. Juncker is the President of the Commission. I can't help thinking you've just wikipedia'd that, given you were previously calling him the EU Vice President. The basic upshot is difficult, not impossible and so not analogous to knowingly lying to voters. My own view is that it would've been quite easy to fast track us in as there was very little harmonization to be done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: Pipes are welcome too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: Of course. The EU Vice-President was stating the legal position under the Treaties. The SNP Chair of the Committee sought clarification on the claims in the White Paper. Just read the correspondence http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf http://www.parliament.scot/S4_EuropeanandExternalRelationsCommittee/Inquiries/Letter_from_Viviane_Reding_Vice_President_of_the_European_Commission_dated_20_March_2014__pdf.pdf The Treaties cannot be negotiated or amended without the consent of all Members States. We know what the treaties say, fact is they wont matter a f**k if the political will is there, nor will the EU commission, president or anybody else. You're the worst broken record on this forum. Nae currency, only western European country to be refused entry into the EU, super massive black hole. We've heard it all before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, The OP said: I can't help thinking you've just wikipedia'd that, given you were previously calling him the EU Vice President. The basic upshot is difficult, not impossible and so not analogous to knowingly lying to voters. My own view is that it would've been quite easy to fast track us in as there was very little harmonization to be done. Him? Viviane Reding is woman. It's you who has to rely on Wiki! Try reading the EU treaties (especially Amsterdam, Nice and Lisbon) or the consolidated version before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: We know what the treaties say, fact is they wont matter a f**k if the political will is there, nor will the EU commission, president or anybody else. You're the worst broken record on this forum. Nae currency, only western European country to be refused entry into the EU, super massive black hole. We've heard it all before. Quite the opposite. The European Court enforces the Treaties. I did not say "nae currency", just not the Pound. No supporter of real independence would want the Bank of England to determine Scotland's monetary policies and interest rates. No supporter of real independence would want the Westminster government, via a currency union and fiscal treaty, to control Scotland's tax and spending policies. But that's exactly what Salmond was advocating and offering (with no UK agreement) before IndyRef1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Bishop Briggs said: Him? Viviane Reding is woman. It's you who has to rely on Wiki! Try reading the EU treaties (especially Amsterdam, Nice and Lisbon) or the consolidated version before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. There are a number of Vice Presidents of the EU Commission and I'll be honest I didn't click your links as it wouldn't carry any more weight than Barroso's pre-referendum comments. I've studied all the EU Law I'm ever likely to. What a waste of 6 months that proved to be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonMan Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Got on Scotland Tonight and Willie Rennie's going on about how we can have a referendum on the second deal...in what world is this happening? His party don't even have ten MP's and the big two aren't going for a second referendum. Delusional. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: Quite the opposite. The European Court enforces the Treaties. I did not say "nae currency", just not the Pound. No supporter of real independence would want the Bank of England to determine Scotland's monetary policies and interest rates. No supporter of real independence would want the Westminster government, via a currency union and fiscal treaty, to control Scotland's tax and spending policies. But that's exactly what Salmond was advocating and offering (with no UK agreement) before IndyRef1. The member states will decide. As you've already admitted when arguing for brexit, only the major countries matter, not the commission, not juncker or anybody else. I've also told you a million times that a currency union, sterlingisation, scottish pound, euro are all perfectly feasible options and i'd be happy with any of them. you like to continually play on the worst of the fears from the last one. Currency, EU, deficit. You're fooling absolutely no one. Have you came up with any reasons yet why you feel that an independent Scotland outside the EU is better than being part of the UK outside of the EU ? After all you're continually telling us how you support "real" scottish independence so you must have reasons. I expect you'll swerve that one just like the last time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: The member states will decide. As you've already admitted when arguing for brexit, only the major countries matter, not the commission, not juncker or anybody else. I've also told you a million times that a currency union, sterlingisation, scottish pound, euro are all perfectly feasible options and i'd be happy with any of them. you like to continually play on the worst of the fears from the last one. Currency, EU, deficit. You're fooling absolutely no one. Have you came up with any reasons yet why you feel that an independent Scotland outside the EU is better than being part of the UK outside of the EU ? After all you're continually telling us how you support "real" scottish independence so you must have reasons. I expect you'll swerve that one just like the last time. Able to decide our own security, trade, fishing, agriculture, environment, energy and immigration policies for a start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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