Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Sooky]

"Brexit Secretary David Davis says the Government will introduce legislation "within days" to begin the formal process of leaving the EU"

[LinkinFighter]

EPL fanboy mastermind a British nationalist? Probably the most unsurprising thing I've read on here.

[renton]

4 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Constitutionally and legally, Holyrood's powers are devolved from Westminster. The devolution legislation did not give Holyrood any powers over foreign policy. The Supreme Court has simply confirmed that. 

Under EU legislation, the British Government as a legal duty to ensure that Scotland's legislation complies with EU law. Under EU law, Scotland is a region of a Member State, the UK.

The Scottish Parliament is not, and never has been, equal to the British Parliament at Westminster. Legally, Westminster could abolish the Scottish Parliament. 

Only an idiot could pretend otherwise.

Something the BT campaign and it's supporters did, and the subsequent Scotland act as well. Legally the supreme court had little choice but to rule as it did, politically however it stomps all over a lot of rhetoric that came from the Unionist side last time and deconstructs the arguments around "equal partnerships" and Scotland's place in the Union. It simply adds colour to repeated arguments that the size of Scotland's representation is not enough to give Scotland an equal voice in the UK.

[wastecoatwilly]

 

5 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

I agree

Time to visit the Scottish assembly and the lord lyon,the lion rampant is your sovereignty

[Wee Willie]

3 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Constitutionally and legally, Holyrood's powers are devolved from Westminster. The devolution legislation did not give Holyrood any powers over foreign policy. The Supreme Court has simply confirmed that. 

Under EU legislation, the British Government as a legal duty to ensure that Scotland's legislation complies with EU law. Under EU law, Scotland is a region of a Member State, the UK.

The Scottish Parliament is not, and never has been, equal to the British Parliament at Westminster. Legally, Westminster could abolish the Scottish Parliament. 

Only an idiot could pretend otherwise.

True, but only an idiot would think that Scotland with her 59 MPs would get a fair deal in a parliament of roughly 500+ English MPs

[Wee Willie]

33 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

The SNP can't win this one also true

 

17 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

I agree

 

6 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

 

Time to visit the Scottish assembly and the lord lyon,the lion rampant is your sovereignty

Me no comprendo? In other words - whit?

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, renton said:

Something the BT campaign and it's supporters did, and the subsequent Scotland act as well. Legally the supreme court had little choice but to rule as it did, politically however it stomps all over a lot of rhetoric that came from the Unionist side last time and deconstructs the arguments around "equal partnerships" and Scotland's place in the Union. It simply adds colour to repeated arguments that the size of Scotland's representation is not enough to give Scotland an equal voice in the UK.

Has anyone claimed the powers of The Scottish Parliament and devolved Assemblies are equal to the Westminster Parliament? Scotland never has, and never will, have an "equal voice" in the UK. That would (given the relative populations of England, Wales and NI) be impossible. 

 

[Bishop Briggs]

7 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

True, but only an idiot would think that Scotland with her 59 MPs would get a fair deal in a parliament of roughly 500+ English MPs

Public spending per capita in Scotland is significantly higher than in England. 

Would you abolish the Barnett Formula and the UK's block grant to Scotland? 

[George Parr]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

Has anyone claimed the powers of The Scottish Parliament and devolved Assemblies are equal to the Westminster Parliament? Scotland never has, and never will, have an "equal voice" in the UK. That would (given the relative populations of England, Wales and NI) be impossible. 

 

I agree.

The above probably works as a reasonable argument against creation of a separate devolved English parliament - in effect it already exists.

Anyone unhappy with Scotland's junior partner status should simply vote accordingly when the next, inevitable, referendum rolls round.

[Wee Willie]

1 minute ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Public spending per capita in Scotland is significantly higher than in England. 

Would you abolish the Barnett Formula and the UK's block grant to Scotland? 

You can see by my avatar what I want tae happen.
I would presume there will be nae Barnett formula when we are independent.

[wastecoatwilly]

14 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

 

 

Me no comprendo? In other words - whit?

you don't need the peoples vote,you only need the three estates to agree on Scottish independence 

[renton]

15 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Has anyone claimed the powers of The Scottish Parliament and devolved Assemblies are equal to the Westminster Parliament? Scotland never has, and never will, have an "equal voice" in the UK. That would (given the relative populations of England, Wales and NI) be impossible. 

 

I realise that, indeed have used that argument in favour of Scottish independence, but that didn't stop Labour in particular talk about "leading the Union", Cameron talking about a "Partnership of equals" or Gordon Brown trying to proclaim Holyrood "Permanent" in UK law (which obviously it can't be.

What's good about this judgment for Sturgeon is less the legal issues involved and more the deconstruction of several of BT's arguments from last time, and a weakening of the case for Union this time.

[Bishop Briggs]

2 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

You can see by my avatar what I want tae happen.
I would presume there will be nae Barnett formula when we are independent.

That's avoiding the issue.

Do you think that the Barnett Formula and block grant should be abolished now? Do you think that it's a bad deal for Scotland? If so, how would the Scottish Government and the SNP's MPs improve on it?

If Sturgeon calls another IndyRef, is the Smith Commission deal (including Barnet Formula and block grant) dead?

[AUFC90]

12 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Public spending per capita in Scotland is significantly higher than in England. 

Would you abolish the Barnett Formula and the UK's block grant to Scotland? 

Bit daft asking an independence supporter whether they want rid of the barnett formula ? Of course we do, being tied to a debt ridden and financially wasteful nation has seriously dented our abilities to go it alone but it's still preferable to being stuck with them continually adding more debt and "deficit". 

[AUFC90]

1 minute ago, Bishop Briggs said:

That's avoiding the issue.

Do you think that the Barnett Formula and block grant should be abolished now? Do you think that it's a bad deal for Scotland? If so, how would the Scottish Government and the SNP's MPs improve on it?

If Sturgeon calls another IndyRef, is the Smith Commission deal (including Barnet Formula and block grant) dead?

Should be abolished now ?  would be good for the independence cause right enough. It will get abolished when we vote yes and divvy up all the assets 

[Wee Willie]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

you don't need the peoples vote,you only need the three estates to agree on Scottish independence 

There's a bloody site mair than three estates in Scotland and I can remember yonks ago Maggie Thatcher saying if ye want independence then elect indy MPs.
Whitever happened tae that idea?

ps: I ken whit ye mean by three estates but I thought there were at least four?
 

[williemillersmoustache]

10 minutes ago, Consolidate said:

I agree.

The above probably works as a reasonable argument against creation of a separate devolved English parliament - in effect it already exists.

Anyone unhappy with Scotland's junior partner status should simply vote accordingly when the next, inevitable, referendum rolls round.

And be reminded of this fact the next time any dinosaur, yoon, hack, weather-vane socialist, raving britnat or supplicant liberal tells us that we have the most powerful devolved parliament in the world. Or federalism. Or home rule. Or devo-max. Or any other fantasy about the Scottish electorate being respected within this union of c***s.

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, renton said:

I realise that, indeed have used that argument in favour of Scottish independence, but that didn't stop Labour in particular talk about "leading the Union", Cameron talking about a "Partnership of equals" or Gordon Brown trying to proclaim Holyrood "Permanent" in UK law (which obviously it can't be.

What's good about this judgment for Sturgeon is less the legal issues involved and more the deconstruction of several of BT's arguments from last time, and a weakening of the case for Union this time.

I agree with all of that. Gordon Brown was a terrible Chancellor and PM. 

Sturgeon's response included this quote from the BBC website - "It is now crystal clear that the promises made to Scotland by the UK government about the Sewel Convention and the importance of embedding it in statute were not worth the paper they were written on."

That's a bizarre statement. The Sewel Convention applies when Westminster legislates on a matter that is devolved to Holyrood. Foreign Policy, including EU Membership, is not devolved in any way. The Sewel Convention (1998) has never been embedded in statute and I can't recall any UK Government promise to do so.

[Antlion]

4 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

And be reminded of this fact the next time any dinosaur, yoon, hack, weather-vane socialist, raving britnat or supplicant liberal tells us that we have the most powerful devolved parliament in the world. Or federalism. Or home rule. Or devo-max. Or any other fantasy about the Scottish electorate being respected within this union of c***s.

It won't stop the BritNats attempting it. Indeed, I see the usual suspects on this thread are already weighing in in their fight against Scottish statehood; they must realise that the stark reality of regionhood is being writ large and publicly today.

[Bishop Briggs]

9 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

Should be abolished now ?  would be good for the independence cause right enough. It will get abolished when we vote yes and divvy up all the assets 

What about the liabilities? Any independence deal will be a complex negotiation.

But it will finished and implemented within 18 months as Salmond assured us in the last independence White Paper.