The Official Former President Trump thread

[Fullerene]

22 minutes ago, GordonS said:

That's fair enough, but for many of the undecideds the problem is that the coherent janny is currently donating school equipment to a gang of neds to batter their friends and family.

At a certain point you need to stop feeding the mouth that bites you.

I fully accept that there might be flaws with Harris and the Democrats but I can't think of any problem that there is where electing Trump would be the answer.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Fullerene said:

I also have concern for all those who describe themselves as undecided.

Imagine them doing an aptitude test:

Q1.  You need to choose between two people to be head janitor at your school.  One has some idea what the job entails while the other rambles on incoherently.  Who do you choose?

Q2. Same question but now it is the town sheriff.

Q3. Same question but now it is city mayor.

Q4. Same question but now it is President of the United States of America and Commander-in-chief of all US military forces.

Q5. Are you still stuck on question 1?

 

 

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

That's fair enough, but for many of the undecideds the problem is that the coherent janny is currently donating school equipment to a gang of neds to batter their friends and family.

At a certain point you need to stop feeding the mouth that bites you.

I also think ‘one of them is a white man and the other is a black woman’ comes into the equation and probably would for questions 1, 2 and 3.  

 

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, Fullerene said:

I fully accept that there might be flaws with Harris and the Democrats but I can't think of any problem that there is where electing Trump would be the answer.

I'm not sure whether voting Democrat has done much good for the industrial working class in the USA over the past 30 years. There's been insufficient investment in new industries to replace those being lost to cheaper foreign workers. Maybe if you're prepared to leave your family and friends and move thousands of miles away, but not in your own communities. They've done nothing to make your working life better - no entitlement to time off, no paid annual leave (the only industrialised country in the world where that's true), no sick pay (except in some states), no maximum hours, no protection from unfair dismissal, no maternity pay, no maternity protection. And there's a lot more on top of that.

Polling shows the American public badly want those things - paid time off is an even higher priority than paid healthcare or pensions.

They had 8 years of Clinton, 8 years of Obama and 4 years of Biden, plus they've had many years of control in Congress, and nothing got done about any of it, because the Democrats are ultimately owned by the boss class. Now Harris is pushing tax cuts for the middle class and says nothing about those on low incomes.

Trump's four years didn't hurt many of them and at least he made it sound like he cared about them, as obviously phoney as that was. He did things that at least have the appearance of trying to prevent jobs moving abroad.

If you're working class in the rust-belt, you're not black or gay or trans, you don't plan on having an abortion and you don't care about those who are or do, what's the actual difference to your life between presidencies of Harris or Trump?

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

 

I also think ‘one of them is a white man and the other is a black woman’ comes into the equation and probably would for questions 1, 2 and 3.  

 

Oh I don't think those people are undecideds.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

Oh I don't think those people are undecideds.

Fair point.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

6 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I'm not sure whether voting Democrat has done much good for the industrial working class in the USA over the past 30 years. There's been insufficient investment in new industries to replace those being lost to cheaper foreign workers. Maybe if you're prepared to leave your family and friends and move thousands of miles away, but not in your own communities. They've done nothing to make your working life better - no entitlement to time off, no paid annual leave (the only industrialised country in the world where that's true), no sick pay (except in some states), no maximum hours, no protection from unfair dismissal, no maternity pay, no maternity protection. And there's a lot more on top of that.

Polling shows the American public badly want those things - paid time off is an even higher priority than paid healthcare or pensions.

They had 8 years of Clinton, 8 years of Obama and 4 years of Biden, plus they've had many years of control in Congress, and nothing got done about any of it, because the Democrats are ultimately owned by the boss class. Now Harris is pushing tax cuts for the middle class and says nothing about those on low incomes.

Trump's four years didn't hurt many of them and at least he made it sound like he cared about them, as obviously phoney as that was. He did things that at least have the appearance of trying to prevent jobs moving abroad.

If you're working class in the rust-belt, you're not black or gay or trans, you don't plan on having an abortion and you don't care about those who are or do, what's the actual difference to your life between presidencies of Harris or Trump?

That's a very fair argument, but the immediate crisis is to avoid the US and the rest of us crashing over the rapids of a second Trump presidency.

Also, the problems you outline are not confined to America.  In the month that Grangemouth and Port Talbot are being consigned to the industrial graveyard and with them thousands of jobs, there is a requirement for many governments to urgently address the massive structural changes.

The difference is that it's less likely to happen in the States due to the weird 'winner takes all' mentality which has created a grotesque quality of life imbalance, the removal of which will remain an unlikely prospect whoever is in the White House.

To sum up, expect f**k all economic uplift and improvement under Harris, and the same from Trump, but with a huge side order of societal mayhem.

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

To sum up, expect f**k all economic uplift and improvement under Harris, and the same from Trump, but with a huge side order of societal mayhem.

The simple reality is under Democratic Presidents the U.S. economy performs better, however that's not the message that is constantly trumpeted. Just grabbing from Wikipedia: