FilthyMack Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 BerwickMad, I only read your first couple of posts but I see you're as quilty of tarring every Scotland fan with the same brush in the same way every England fan gets tarred. I'll have you know I've never worn a kilt to a Scotland game home or abroad and never got drunkenly out of order and treated anywhere I visit with the utmost of respect. I always do a bit of sight-seeing when I've been abroad watching Scotland, even visiting art museums and the like where I've seen plenty of other Scotland fans doing the same. Am pretty sure folk in the cities we'll be playing are delighted when they get Scotland in the draw as they know what to expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 BerwickMad, I take it from your comments about "Many Cities" not liking the Tartan Army invading their city squares, comes from first hand experience. Or is it because you wouldn't particularly like it yourselve. Please back up your statement. If I'm correct on the second part, you should have really thought about what you said before you posted it. If it was from being in the cities at those times, well fair enough. Personally, I don't think you've been anywhere/ too many places with the Tartan Army. And by the way, yes, their is a small percentage of arseholes do follow Scotland abroad, but, it's in the high profile games where everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon. 664268[/snapback] Its just from comments I read on different message boards. Mainly English ones yes, but the general feeling is that it is a myth that EVERYBODY loves the Tartan Army. I dont really have anything to back it up, but there is little to back up the statement that everybody loves them either. Personally, I have nothing against them as I would rather see fans enjoying themselves and having a laugh than not. Its more the fact that ive never heard anyone praise the Tartan Army other than themselves and a few people in France around the time of France 98. I doubt SPLw**kw**kw**k is a typical member of the Tartan Army as he gives them a bad name. Infact, one of my mates is on his way to Norway tommorow night and I know he holds no racist views like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLwankwankwank Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 I doubt SPLw**kw**kw**k is a typical member of the Tartan Army as he gives them a bad name. Infact, one of my mates is on his way to Norway tommorow night and I know he holds no racist views like him. I am a fully paid member of the Tartan Army with many trips under my belt. You know why I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT EVERYONE LOVES US? Because I'm there experiencing it. Experiencing getting woken from a tent in several nations to be invited into peoples homes and actually given a key! Experiencing the joyous looks on peoples faces when you sing their national anthem, sometimes along with the pipes. Experiencing those people inviting you back year after year and having them visit you in return. What I don't do is read ENGLISH forums that slate the Tartan Army you idiot. I do not give the Tartan Army a bad name for making you look like the cock you are perfectly capable of doing yourself. Now get back to your English forums, no-one likes you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Ignore the truth if you want. I am ashamed of the way England fans are hated everywhere they go because of their fans behaviour. Is embarasing. But dont try and pretend you are loved throughout the world, because your not. 664149[/snapback] Examples? I dont really have anything to back it up, but there is little to back up the statement that everybody loves them either. Oh dear Scotland fans won the Best Fans award at France 98, for one thing. Wee anecdote: On Friday evening, me and two friends were walking from Greenock town centre to the area where we live as were on our way to a party. Some French guy eating chips waved us down and asked us the way to a certain street; as it was on our way, we walked up with him to show him exactly where it was. He was slurring a bit and staggering around, and he said someone had already refused to give him directions because of his state, but he also said that after 8 years of living in England, he was relieved to be in a position to even ASK for help because the people in Scotland were that much more welcoming. I didn't ask where in England he lived, but I imagine it's some wee hick town like Dover or Berwick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Its just from comments I read on different message boards. Mainly English ones yes, but the general feeling is that it is a myth that EVERYBODY loves the Tartan Army. 664335[/snapback] I agree with you to be honest. And I have been to several Scotland away games. In fact, one of the guys from work I know who goes to every Scotland away game is going to Slovenia a few days early as he wants to see the city without having 3,000 pissed Scots with kilts in the city centre for company. The Tartan Army may be annoying at times, but you cant compare the atmosphere with the English fans abroad. England abroad can be hateful and jingoistic to the extreme. It boils my blood to see the spokeman of the English fans whine every time they are involved in trouble about police brutality and "We were just minding our own business, when...." It's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 It's a typical English viewpoint. They have very little national identity, so like to pour scorn on those who do, particuarly when it's their 'opressed' neighbours. The Tartan Army are welcomed EVERYWHERE. Of course there will be the odd totally ignorant, drunken arsehole, I don't think anyone has disagreed with that, but on the whole, we're welcomed wherever we go. Thats because we go there to have a good time, and integrate with the locals. And if you think it's only the Tartan Army themselves where all the praise comes from, you're more deluded than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 In fact, one of the guys from work I know who goes to every Scotland away game is going to Slovenia a few days early as he wants to see the city without having 3,000 pissed Scots with kilts in the city centre for company. Perhaps your esteemed colleague would like to visit Slovenia when there isn't an international football match on if he wants to avoid the atmosphere of an international football match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 In fact, one of the guys from work I know who goes to every Scotland away game is going to Slovenia a few days early as he wants to see the city without having 3,000 pissed Scots with kilts in the city centre for company. 664385[/snapback] Thats nothing to do with the Tartan Army really though. I'd imagine he wouldnae go if there were 3,000 supporters of another country about the place, particularly if he's on a sightseeing trip. I know I'd book it for a different time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Perhaps your esteemed colleague would like to visit Slovenia when there isn't an international football match on if he wants to avoid the atmosphere of an international football match 664389[/snapback] Hardly the point. He wants to go to the game. But given we both have mutual friends there, he would like to visit them and enjoy a few nights out in the city centre with its usual ambience (Ljubljana is a beautiful place) without bumping into thousands of Scots lying sleeping and pished in Dzerzinky Square My point isnt that the Tartan Army are hated anywhere. Its that not all the locals are delighted to see them there, which I think is what some are suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Hardly the point. He wants to go to the game. But given we both have mutual friends there, he would like to visit them and enjoy a few nights out in the city centre with its usual ambience (Ljubljana is a beautiful place) without bumping into thousands of Scots lying sleeping and pished in Dzerzinky Square My point isnt that the Tartan Army are hated anywhere. Its that not all the locals are delighted to see them there, which I think is what some are suggesting. 664397[/snapback] The kind of locals that want to go about their business quietly would object to any large group of visiting fans, TA or otherwise. Entirely their choice, and not something I'd disagree with, but it's hardly a scatching indictment of the TA> As I said, if he wants to experience the "real" Ljubljana then fair play to him for booking early, but I think it's unfair to act as if there was a serious danger of the TA being a nuisance considering he's going there for the match. I'm with StewartyMac on this, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Thats nothing to do with the Tartan Army really though. I'd imagine he wouldnae go if there were 3,000 supporters of another country about the place, particularly if he's on a sightseeing trip. I know I'd book it for a different time. 664393[/snapback] Yeah, exactly. My point is that the nature of Ljubljana will be different when the Tartan Army are there. Which is not to every local's taste. I know some people in Ljubljana arent really looking forward to the Tartan Army coming over. I'm sure on the other hand some will love it. It is wrong to say that people in every town welcome Scotland fans with open arms. Some do, some dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartyMac Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Hardly the point. He wants to go to the game. But given we both have mutual friends there, he would like to visit them and enjoy a few nights out in the city centre with its usual ambience (Ljubljana is a beautiful place) without bumping into thousands of Scots lying sleeping and pished in Dzerzinky Square My point isnt that the Tartan Army are hated anywhere. Its that not all the locals are delighted to see them there, which I think is what some are suggesting. 664397[/snapback] Of course, not EVERYONE in EVERY country is happy to see thousands of football fans arrive in their city. The point that is being made is that in comparison to many other countries, I reckon the TA is welcomed a lot more. I'll never forget the time we were in Brussels, where the locals were a bit bemused at first, then joined in with the partying in the Grand Place, before and after the game, despite us being humped. They loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Yeah, exactly. My point is that the nature of Ljubljana will be different when the Tartan Army are there. Which is not to every local's taste. I know some people in Ljubljana arent really looking forward to the Tartan Army coming over. I'm sure on the other hand some will love it. It is wrong to say that people in every town welcome Scotland fans with open arms. Some do, some dont. 664404[/snapback] OK, what about this: People in cities that host international football matches who enjoy the atmosphere associated with such fixtures will, as a general rule, welcome the TA moreso than most other groups of fans. Those who aren't into "party" atmosphere, large groups of tourists and such like will find the TA's visit intrusive, but not threatening. Is that fair? I think that sums it up nicely. p.s. It isn't wrong to say that people in every town welcome Scotland fans with open arms. It's wrong to say that all people in every town do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 The kind of locals that want to go about their business quietly would object to any large group of visiting fans, TA or otherwise. 664400[/snapback] Well exactly. But thats the myth some are trying to put forward. i.e. that the Tartan Army are loved worldwide, which isnt true. A lot of people will like the atmosphere, but for many others they would rather they could go to their local in the town centre without having hundreds of pissed Scotsmen staggering through their town. As football fans go, they will be welcomed more than most, but that might be like the choice of getting bitten by a mouse or a lion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Its just from comments I read on different message boards. Mainly English ones yes, but the general feeling is that it is a myth that EVERYBODY loves the Tartan Army. I dont really have anything to back it up, but there is little to back up the statement that everybody loves them either. Right, BM, I will move straight past the English/Scottish banter as it seems to have been done to death already.. ..however to raise a thread on subjective comments from fans of an opposing country is somewhat rich. If you have examples, fine post them, but don't punt out a blanket generalisation on no evidence. Does *any* town 100% accept travelling fans? No, of course not. Doesn't matter who they support. However in comparison to the vast majority of fan bases, the TA are known for their honesty, generosity and good nature when abroad. So in summary, are there ars*holes amongst the Scottish support? Of course. Are they, as you claim... "very annoying in an "in your face", disrespectful manner"? Perhaps a small minority, but to suggest the support as a whole is, is just baiting and shows you know absolutely nothing about the TA what so ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 OK, what about this:People in cities that host international football matches who enjoy the atmosphere associated with such fixtures will, as a general rule, welcome the TA moreso than most other groups of fans. Those who aren't into "party" atmosphere, large groups of tourists and such like will find the TA's visit intrusive, but not threatening. Is that fair? I think that sums it up nicely. p.s. It isn't wrong to say that people in every town welcome Scotland fans with open arms. It's wrong to say that all people in every town do 664408[/snapback] Yes, that sums it up nicely, which I think is what our Berwick friend was hinting at. And I agree with your p.s., but I dont think thats the message some are trying to put across Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Well exactly. But thats the myth some are trying to put forward. i.e. that the Tartan Army are loved worldwide, which isnt true. A lot of people will like the atmosphere, but for many others they would rather they could go to their local in the town centre without having hundreds of pissed Scotsmen staggering through their town. As football fans go, they will be welcomed more than most, but that might be like the choice of getting bitten by a mouse or a lion. 664410[/snapback] The part in bold is the one statement you still haven't backed up. I think it's simply incorrect to say this. In what area of the world are the TA not loved? England, perhaps, but I can't think of anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 The part in bold is the one statement you still haven't backed up. I think it's simply incorrect to say this. 664418[/snapback] But to be honest, it cannot be backed up either way. It is equally incorrect to say The Tartan Army are loved worldwide, which many are putting across. I know people in Paris who didnt enjoy the visit during the World Cup in 1998 (which I was at too). They were appalled by what they saw. Perhaps typical of Parisian attitudes (they dont even like the rest of France very much !!), but their view is their view. The point seems to be that the TA are better than other fans. This may be true. All I am saying is that for many people no football fans at all would be better than even the Tartan Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killie_ken Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 The Berwick fan said earlier that it's only a few that cause trouble with England abroad. Over 2000 banning orders says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Im glad some serious comment has appeared on here rather than the racist bile from SPLw**kw**kw**k. I shouldnt really have lumped the Tartan Army as a whole together though. The thing is though, people on here also lump all the English fans following England together. I went to Portugal last summer along with about 90000 other English fans. 200 caused trouble in Albufiera (where i was actually) down one street. All of a sudden we are all hooligans, when that isnt the case. For that reason I shouldnt have lumped the Tartan Army all together. All I am trying to say though, is that many places around europe and the world dont like the attitude of the typical British football fan, and this includes the Scots. Some places dont like football fans stumbling down streets totally pished, in your face and making alot of noise. This is a feature of football fans throughout Britain and doesnt mix with alot of cultures in different countries, whether it is friendly or not. Not everyone loves the Tartan Army, although as British football fans go they are the best behaved. In Portugal me and my mates were signing Holland songs, getting our hair sprayed orange by them, dancing in fountains, buying pints for Russians and just having a great laugh. We were in the old town. Just like what the Tartan Army would do im sure. Its just ashame that a mile away in the new town 200 odd idiots were fighting with the police. It tarrs the reputation of the country and the people supporting the team and having a laugh with other fans. Its a tiny minority who ruin it, and vast majority of English fans are as a whole are just as friendly as Scottish fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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