1320Lichtie Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 That's why the No side won then and polling numbers haven't shifted very much since then? Studies have shown that British identity has strengthened considerably in Scotland because of the referendum. The "Scottish not British" posture is a minority one, which is why the SNP pretends to be pro-monarchy in a manner that would be unthinkable for any politician seeking office in the RoI and talked about keeping the pound rather than launching a separate currency during the last referendum, which would have meant that the Bank of England would have still been calling the shots in macroeconomic terms. You're basing that off one Scotsman poll? And 70 plus percent of 18-25 year olds are polling yes pal. The pro Union stance is in the main a view held by the elderly. It IS dying out whether you like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI Bruce Robertson Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Can people really not concede the possible basis for other people's world view simply because it fails to neatly correspond with their own? The answer to that is obvious if NI isn't seen as being another country but another part of the same one like Arkansas is to Texas in the United States. That's easy enough to understand if the UK rather than Scotland is viewed as being "the country", which is the status quo arrangement in constitutional terms. A sizable chunk of Scotland's population still sees things in that sort of way and don't go along with the SNP's brand of nationalism. 38% said that they "completely support Scotland staying in the UK no matter what" in today's opinion poll in The Scotsman, for example, so pro-Union sentiment is far from dead in Scotland. 38% and you see this as an endorsement of the status quo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Can people really not concede the possible basis for other people's world view simply because it fails to neatly correspond with their own? The answer to that is obvious if NI isn't seen as being another country but another part of the same one like Arkansas is to Texas in the United States. That's easy enough to understand if the UK rather than Scotland is viewed as being "the country", which is the status quo arrangement in constitutional terms. A sizable chunk of Scotland's population still sees things in that sort of way and don't go along with the SNP's brand of nationalism. 38% said that they "completely support Scotland staying in the UK no matter what" in today's opinion poll in The Scotsman, for example, so pro-Union sentiment is far from dead in Scotland. That's to characterise No voters as "regionalists" which may be a popular rhetorical device amongst the more excitable nats but doesn't seem to fit well with the way the no campaign was sold or indeed reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Em, well, no. Those identifying as 'British not Scottish' was recorded as increasing from 6% in January 2014 to a massive 8% by July 2015: this is not indicative of British identity being "strengthened considerably" because of the referendum, however much you may wish to spin it otherwise. Over the same period of time, those identifying as 'Scottish not British' rose from 23% to 26%. You, however, decline to argue that Scottish identity has been significantly strengthened as a result of the referendum, I note. Funny, that. The SNP will not be obsessing over utterly minute movements in identity statistics, though: as stated by Eichhorn, the strongest determinants of SNP support are pragmatic evaluations about economic competence, trustworthiness and political personnel. Voters are significantly more likely to decide their votes based on substantial, concrete policy debates than concerns or preferences over identity. Also, regarding the link between identity and voting preferences in a hypothetical, second referendum, Curtice argued in the wake of the 2014 referendum and 2015 general election: "Ask them [the Scottish electorate] how British they are, only about one-in-three will give themselves a high score. One of the things we discovered during the referendum was that it wasn't how Scottish people felt that mattered to the probability of them voting Yes or No, because virtually everybody feels strongly Scottish." Strengthened considerably, indeed. Good try, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 It's a statelet. And Rab it's because I simply cannot get my head around it all. I find the whole concept of Northern Ireland and the attitudes of the people that live there totally bizarre. Well, atleast the Unionist side. 'The law of animals, destroy what you don't understand' Written by a guy, you would probably like to read up on Lichtie !? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 'The law of animals, destroy what you don't understand' Written by a guy, you would probably like to read up on Lichtie !? I understand the situation not the mindset and I never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 2 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said: It's a statelet. And Rab it's because I simply cannot get my head around it all. I find the whole concept of Northern Ireland and the attitudes of the people that live there totally bizarre. Well, atleast the Unionist side. For once I'll indulge you. What is the "concept" of Northern Ireland? What are the bizarre attitudes of those who live there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Em, well, no. Those identifying as 'British not Scottish' was recorded as increasing from 6% in January 2014 to a massive 8% by July 2015: this is not indicative of British identity being "strengthened considerably" because of the referendum, however much you may wish to spin it otherwise. Over the same period of time, those identifying as 'Scottish not British' rose from 23% to 26%. You, however, decline to argue that Scottish identity has been significantly strengthened as a result of the referendum, I note. Funny, that. The SNP will not be obsessing over utterly minute movements in identity statistics, though: as stated by Eichhorn, the strongest determinants of SNP support are pragmatic evaluations about economic competence, trustworthiness and political personnel. Voters are significantly more likely to decide their votes based on substantial, concrete policy debates than concerns or preferences over identity. Also, regarding the link between identity and voting preferences in a hypothetical, second referendum, Curtice argued in the wake of the 2014 referendum and 2015 general election: "Ask them [the Scottish electorate] how British they are, only about one-in-three will give themselves a high score. One of the things we discovered during the referendum was that it wasn't how Scottish people felt that mattered to the probability of them voting Yes or No, because virtually everybody feels strongly Scottish." Strengthened considerably, indeed. Good try, though. Excellent. A whole 8% Also most definitely part of the 26 percent. I'll happily actively support anything that is anti Britain. A horrible nation. From what has happened in the past to the way things are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I understand the situation not the mindset and I never will. No offence, but I honestly don't think you do understand Lichtie, you seem to hold a deeply imprinted stereotype, that won't allow you to consider anything that won't fit into your suited pigeonhole. ETA, don't get me wrong pal, you aren't the worst by any stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 No offence, but I honestly don't think you do understand Lichtie, you seem to hold a deeply imprinted stereotype, that won't allow you to consider anything that won't fit into your suited pigeonhole. Maybe not to the same extent as yourself but my opinion was formed after taking a great interest in the subject and looking into it, never had an opinion or mindset before doing that. Never even had an opinion on Scottish independence until the last 5 years or so. In fact the independence question really has been the main factor in my interest into it all, if it hadn't come up I doubt I'd have much interest in anything politically. It's been a great thing imo. Glad I've picked the winning side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Maybe not to the same extent as yourself but my opinion was formed after taking a great interest in the subject and looking into it, never had an opinion or mindset before doing that. Never even had an opinion on Scottish independence until the last 5 years or so. In fact the independence question really has been the main factor in my interest into it all, if it hadn't come up I doubt I'd have much interest in anything politically. It's been a great thing imo. Glad I've picked the winning side. You formed an opinion on Scottish Independence when you were 7!? And there are those who knock Scottish education standards!?Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 You formed an opinion on Scottish Independence when you were 7!? And there are those who knock Scottish education standards!?Wow! If this is a joke it's pish Rab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 If this is a joke it's pish Rab But at least you understood it, first time for everything eh wee man?[emoji6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 That is something that does surprise me at times about this thread,. Of course people will have opinions on NI and like myself and anyone living here can find negatives about it. But the level of hatred posted on here can be unnerving , I've been called a bigot numerous times for no other reason than the poster believes I'm from NI ,I've seen others get worse abuse for pretty much the same, if a Muslim posted on here and got that abuse for their views or country of origin there would be outrage , I can't really see a difference. Reckon the Muslims have it slightly tougher than you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co.Down Hibee Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 15 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Reckon the Muslims have it slightly tougher than you like. Missed the point a wee touch .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Reckon the Muslims have it slightly tougher than you like. No Ulster FryYou've got a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deplorable Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 16 hours ago, Jacksgranda said: There's "leeway" and there's "it's o.k., it's only a paddy, don't worry, son." In certain instances e.g Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy there should be/have been a full investigation, and individuals charged if necessary. Maybe the Commanding Officers could be in the dock for a change. Each episode (of killings by state forces) is different, and not all, or maybe even most, cases warrant prosecution. Right, I never meant that police or military members should never go to jail for their wrongdoing. I just meant that even in those cases where jail is appropriate, a lighter sentence than would be handed a terrorist is defensible. The idea that the solider should be held to a harsher standard seems ridiculous as the genesis decision of they ended up a killer so different. Everyone here seemed to be saying that soldiers and police should be held to a higher standard, and there was no pushback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 10 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: No Ulster Fry You've got a point or Bushmills, but the point about the modern PC way of doing things not being applied equally because people have not internalised its values was a valid one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: or Bushmills, but the point about the modern PC way of doing things not being applied equally because people have not internalised its values was a valid one. No Bushmills might not be a bad thing. Oh, you meant the whiskey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Any update on Michelle O'Neill breaching ministerial rules and the inappropriate transfer and reallocation of £100m of European Funding whilst Farming Minister in the Exec. I wonder if she will step aside until investigations are complete? Or have these allegations been 'buried' for good now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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