The Hibernian Thread

[AndyM]

9 minutes ago, The Other Foot said:

Really? 

I’d be curious to know how old you are. I don’t mean that in a nasty way, I’m genuinely wondering if this is a generational thing. I was sitting on a bus the other day, next to a group of 17-18 year old guys, and they were being so…nice to each other. I can’t remember one nice word or compliment being shared between male friends in my entire youth! It just wasn’t the way we engaged. It was the era of Jackass, Break Stuff and South Park. 

My WhatsApp groups are still full of casual racism (including that towards white people), homophobia (some of the worst coming from my best friend, who is gay) and general all-round, 90s style, Beavis and Butthead-inflected humour that really shouldn’t be seen by the general public. 

I disagree with the hiring of Malky, by the way. I don’t think racists remarks (followed by an apology) are worthy of perpetual castigation, but I think they’re worthy of a permanent removal from something as visible as national football. 

I just think it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that chat between friends is always PG rated. Maybe it is with younger generations - it certainly isn’t with mine, and most assuredly isn’t with Malky Mckay’s. 
 

I would just add - it’s quite interesting, I find that WhatsApp chatter doesn’t emanate into the face-to-face realm any more. The friends who joke on my WhatsApps don’t joke the same way when we’re in person. Slow progress, but progress none the less. 

Excellent post. 

Some of the sanctimonious stuff being put out by some is just laughable.

When I think back to when I played at University and after some of the stuff that was said on the pitch by players to the opposition was definitely the sort of stuff that would get you cancelled now. Did I say things I would never say now? Of course I did. And I bet there's folk on here who did as well.

 

[Arab_R_us]

22 minutes ago, AndyM said:

Excellent post. 

Some of the sanctimonious stuff being put out by some is just laughable.

When I think back to when I played at University and after some of the stuff that was said on the pitch by players to the opposition was definitely the sort of stuff that would get you cancelled now. Did I say things I would never say now? Of course I did. And I bet there's folk on here who did as well.

 

and probably still say. A lot of hypocrisy going on

[AndyM]

1 minute ago, Arab_R_us said:

and probably still say. A lot of hypocrisy going on

There are a lot of things I said on the pitch to opposition players in the 1990s and 2000s I would never say now. Not a chance.  Things I've said 20 and 30 years ago at school etc as well. You grow and you learn. Life's experiences change you. 

Muhammad Ali said it best ""A man who thinks the same at 40 as he did at 20 has wasted 20 years of his life."

[Arab_R_us]

23 minutes ago, AndyM said:

There are a lot of things I said on the pitch to opposition players in the 1990s and 2000s I would never say now. Not a chance.  Things I've said 20 and 30 years ago at school etc as well. You grow and you learn. Life's experiences change you. 

Muhammad Ali said it best ""A man who thinks the same at 40 as he did at 20 has wasted 20 years of his life."

give an example

[Glen Scotia]

1 hour ago, The Other Foot said:

Really? 

I’d be curious to know how old you are. I don’t mean that in a nasty way, I’m genuinely wondering if this is a generational thing. I was sitting on a bus the other day, next to a group of 17-18 year old guys, and they were being so…nice to each other. I can’t remember one nice word or compliment being shared between male friends in my entire youth! It just wasn’t the way we engaged. It was the era of Jackass, Break Stuff and South Park. 

My WhatsApp groups are still full of casual racism (including that towards white people), homophobia (some of the worst coming from my best friend, who is gay) and general all-round, 90s style, Beavis and Butthead-inflected humour that really shouldn’t be seen by the general public. 

I disagree with the hiring of Malky, by the way. I don’t think racists remarks (followed by an apology) are worthy of perpetual castigation, but I think they’re worthy of a permanent removal from something as visible as national football. 

I just think it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that chat between friends is always PG rated. Maybe it is with younger generations - it certainly isn’t with mine, and most assuredly isn’t with Malky Mckay’s. 
 

I would just add - it’s quite interesting, I find that WhatsApp chatter doesn’t emanate into the face-to-face realm any more. The friends who joke on my WhatsApps don’t joke the same way when we’re in person. Slow progress, but progress none the less. 

Good post. 

Casual racism, 3 guys walk into a bar jokes amongst friends on whats app?  Is "casual" racism still racism? If a gay man tells a gay joke is that homophobia? Is it only homophobia if it is public? I'm not vilifying you btw it is purely discussion 

If Malky had told a joke on a private chat group with his friends would that have made the news? Probably not

What Malky said was about actual people he works with (or in the same industry) whilst talking about them through private txts, it wasn't to their face (I'm not arguing his case btw) is the fact it was about actual people that makes it wrong? Should it have been OK to do so because it was a private discussion?  Is there levels of racism,  some are just casual banter and others have you struck off lists

I don't expect you to answer every question btw

[LiviLion]

1 hour ago, The Other Foot said:

Really? 

I’d be curious to know how old you are. I don’t mean that in a nasty way, I’m genuinely wondering if this is a generational thing. I was sitting on a bus the other day, next to a group of 17-18 year old guys, and they were being so…nice to each other. I can’t remember one nice word or compliment being shared between male friends in my entire youth! It just wasn’t the way we engaged. It was the era of Jackass, Break Stuff and South Park.

I'm 28. Obviously we all rip the pish out of each other, we just manage to do it without being racist and homophobic, something I didn't think would have been unusual but here we are.

1 hour ago, The Other Foot said:

My WhatsApp groups are still full of casual racism (including that towards white people)

Weird flex but ok. Interestingly brings it back to the part of my post you took out of the quote: "I'm not sure what point these people are trying to make other than an admission of guilt."

Veering off topic a bit but you can't be racist towards white people. PTTGOYN for this pish I know.

1 hour ago, The Other Foot said:

I disagree with the hiring of Malky, by the way. I don’t think racists remarks (followed by an apology) are worthy of perpetual castigation, but I think they’re worthy of a permanent removal from something as visible as national football.

And back on topic, he didn't give an apology. Even the piss poor one he half-baked said "those three texts" - so even when he's 'apologising' he still went out of his way to say they weren't even all wrong. The main argument always seems to be we all said stupid things in the past, usually referring to when you're kids. This was a 42 year old man, not some edgy teenager who's brain hasn't fully developed yet.

 

On top of all that, shock humour and jokes "close to the bone" aren't exactly what Malky was doing. He was a grown man in a position of power, not like he was making jokes with edgy punchlines, he was actively naming members of staff (not involved in a big group chat with it all being one big inside joke) and just outright being racist/homophobic/misogynistic/antisemitic and that was just what we saw. Less Jimmy Carr, more your drunk uncle at Christmas dinner.

[AndyM]

1 hour ago, Arab_R_us said:

give an example

I'm 54 years old. The standard insult used by everybody when I was at school was "You're gay!" even when you had actually been seen out with a girl. 

Things didn't progress a whole much on the football pitch in the 20 years after. You can do the maths as to what would have been said.. 

[Arab_R_us]

Just now, AndyM said:

I'm 54 years old. The standard insult used by everybody when I was at school was "You're gay!" even when you had actually been seen out with a girl. 

Things didn't progress a whole much on the football pitch in the 20 years after. You can do the maths as to what would have been said.. 

" You're gay " 100% is still being user by young blokes to each other, I dont think that means they are homophobes. Its just an insult between Pals. 

[AndyM]

3 minutes ago, Arab_R_us said:

" You're gay " 100% is still being user by young blokes to each other, I dont think that means they are homophobes. Its just an insult between Pals. 

I'm sure it is still used and you may interpret it as banter or meaningless stupid insult.  But others from different generations would see it as straight out homophobia. 

Malky Mackay is the same generation as I am and ages with me (maybe you too). Would I personally have hired him at Hibs? No. 

Do I think his texts were funny? Not really. They were puerile and offensive. But they were over a decade ago. And something I find more offensive is the sanctimony and hypocrisy from some individuals who are far from clean themselves.

Do I think he should be banned from earning a living in football? Certainly not. Hopefully he will do a good job as technical director at HIbs. He has his work cut out sorting out a bloated squad and resetting the football structures.  

[Joe Terrapin]

A lot of whataboutery here. Not pleased with McKay's appointment and whilst I wouldn't be happy if my private conversations were made public I have to say his messages contained a nasty undercurrent that went beyond friendly banter. As a fan I can do one of two things. Give up on a club I've supported for over 50 years or suck it up and get on with it. I'll choose the latter. 

[Arab_R_us]

9 minutes ago, AndyM said:

I'm sure it is still used and you may interpret it as banter or meaningless stupid insult.  But others from different generations would see it as straight out homophobia. 

Malky Mackay is the same generation as I am and ages with me (maybe you too). Would I personally have hired him at Hibs? No. 

Do I think his texts were funny? Not really. They were puerile and offensive. But they were over a decade ago. And something I find more offensive is the sanctimony and hypocrisy from some individuals who are far from clean themselves.

Do I think he should be banned from earning a living in football? Certainly not. Hopefully he will do a good job as technical director at HIbs. He has his work cut out sorting out a bloated squad and resetting the football structures.  

yeah i agree with you mate. 

[Arab_R_us]

5 minutes ago, Joe Terrapin said:

A lot of whataboutery here. Not pleased with McKay's appointment and whilst I wouldn't be happy if my private conversations were made public I have to say his messages contained a nasty undercurrent that went beyond friendly banter. As a fan I can do one of two things. Give up on a club I've supported for over 50 years or suck it up and get on with it. I'll choose the latter. 

I agree with you too, was a bit nasty undercurrent BUT i still wouldnt be trying to cancel him or prevent him making a living. If he hasnt made a proper public apology he should do (wouldnt be enough for some of the woke Brigade) but most rational folk would except it.

[DA Baracus]

Lots of folk outing themselves a bit here.

[The Other Foot]

52 minutes ago, Arab_R_us said:

I agree with you too, was a bit nasty undercurrent BUT i still wouldnt be trying to cancel him or prevent him making a living. If he hasnt made a proper public apology he should do (wouldnt be enough for some of the woke Brigade) but most rational folk would except it.

You’re at it

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

Mackay seems like an absolute bellend and I don't get any attempt to defend him on the grounds of it being banter,  WhatsApp being an unregulated shitshow etc.  But it hasn't held him back in his career, let's be honest, so any accusations of 'the Woke brigade' persecuting  him are ridiculous. 

Hibs can employ who they want and it's up to their fans how they react to it.  The rest of us will rightly take the piss, but ultimately he'll get judged on his work.   That judgement will just come a lot sooner because he's a bellend, cause he's not got any goodwill stored up.

[Arab_R_us]

6 minutes ago, The Other Foot said:

You’re at it

what do you mean ?

[Arab_R_us]

4 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Mackay seems like an absolute bellend and I don't get any attempt to defend him on the grounds of it being banter,  WhatsApp being an unregulated shitshow etc.  But it hasn't held him back in his career, let's be honest, so any accusations of 'the Woke brigade' persecuting  him are ridiculous. 

Hibs can employ who they want and it's up to their fans how they react to it.  The rest of us will rightly take the piss, but ultimately he'll get judged on his work.   That judgement will just come a lot sooner because he's a bellend, cause he's not got any goodwill stored up.

not necessarily he just needs to fire the manager. The DOF might not come under real scrutiny till 2/3 managers in and that will be years

[gannonball]

9 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Mackay seems like an absolute bellend and I don't get any attempt to defend him on the grounds of it being banter,  WhatsApp being an unregulated shitshow etc.  But it hasn't held him back in his career, let's be honest, so any accusations of 'the Woke brigade' persecuting  him are ridiculous. 

Hibs can employ who they want and it's up to their fans how they react to it.  The rest of us will rightly take the piss, but ultimately he'll get judged on his work.   That judgement will just come a lot sooner because he's a bellend, cause he's not got any goodwill stored up.

Tbh if he came out and said it was terrible shock factor banter but looking back on them he is absolutely horrified with himself then I think people wouldn't be as objectionable towards him as it's a guy taking responsibility for his actions. But he hasn't, which suggests for me he isn't sorry, he's just sorry it got leaked.

Edited May 16 by gannonball

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

Just now, Arab_R_us said:

not necessarily he just needs to fire the manager. The DOF might not come under real scrutiny till 2/3 managers in and that will be years

I don't think he'll get 2/3 managers.  Folk were wanting Joe Savage sacked earlier this season because not every player we signed was a world beater.

If his first decision is bringing in a manager who's shite he'll be under massive pressure right from the go

[Tony Wonder]

3 hours ago, AndyM said:

 

Muhammad Ali said it best ""A man who thinks the same at 40 as he did at 20 has wasted 20 years of his life."

Is this not part of the problem though? It's never been something where he could use the folly of youth as a defence. He was in his 40's at the time.

Someone who speaks like that at that age generally just tends to be a fanny.