Goalie Hamish Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Option A is utterly ridiculous, there is absolutely no way someone should be suggesting it in 2018, that boat has sailed long ago and even if accepted the chance of 32 clubs being licensed within 18 months is pretty unlikely, and even i that happens we have overlapping leagues and far too many clubs for 1 promotion play-off spot Option b is more acceptable but still has overlapping leagues, too many clubs for 1 promotion slot and the archaic SJFA kept on place, with selective proposals on who enters the junior cup Are you getting your Option A and B mixed up? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Are you getting your Option A and B mixed up? Thought I got away with that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, stanley said: The only real solution is a proper merger with East Juniors/EoS merging and West Juniors/SoS merging. Anything else is a mess and might damage the chances of integration in the long-run. You have to start somewhere I suppose and its all baby steps with the SJFA involved, even baby steps is a radical move forward for them. Someway down the like if option A is adopted then these mergers might happen. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Goalie Hamish said: Well looking at it option B is a complete non starter, Lowland League clubs would not accept it for a start. Option A whilst not being perfect gets Junior clubs onboard and eligible for licences, (and its an SFA suggestion) although details would need to be ironed out such as where would Colts, EK, BSC go if relegated from Lowland League, would have to surely be West Superleague but they're unlikely to be relegated anytime soon to be fair. Long term you surely cant have East Juniors and East Seniors operating on the same patch, merger down the road? Thing is, option B shouldn't be a complete non-starter if we're looking to implement an equitable and coherent non-league pyramid. The current LL is first and foremost a league covering the Edinburgh area and the Borders with a few outliers - effectively a rebrand of the old EoS Premier. A three-region model is the closest approach to the realities of demographics of the country - as things stand we've still got the nonsense of the SHFL which covers a large area but with 18 clubs and some 15% of the population also having 50% of the potential chance of promotion to League status. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 minute ago, parsforlife said: Thought I got away with that! No chance My opinion is if all parties are serious about making something happen in time for 2019-2020, then get option A adopted and then further down the line once its operating, improve it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Hillonearth said: Thing is, option B shouldn't be a complete non-starter if we're looking to implement an equitable and coherent non-league pyramid. The current LL is first and foremost a league covering the Edinburgh area and the Borders with a few outliers - effectively a rebrand of the old EoS Premier. A three-region model is the closest approach to the realities of demographics of the country - as things stand we've still got the nonsense of the SHFL which covers a large area but with 18 clubs and some 15% of the population also having 50% of the potential chance of promotion to League status. Totally agree but you're not going to get it straight from the off. England's pyramid has kept evolving over 30 or more years, we've hardly started. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Option A is utterly ridiculous, there is absolutely no way someone should be suggesting it in 2018, that boat has sailed long ago and even if accepted the chance of 32 clubs being licensed within 18 months is pretty unlikely, and even i that happens we have overlapping leagues and far too many clubs for 1 promotion play-off spot Option b is more acceptable but still has overlapping leagues, too many clubs for 1 promotion slot and the archaic SJFA kept on place, with selective proposals on who enters the junior cup Attitudes and real lack of flexibility and vision like this quote is really holding our game back. Option A. The majority of West Super League teams grounds I have visited and majority are at same or better standard than Lowland League grounds. Just need to get through extensive paper work and few other issues and all fine for Lowland League Level. Top teams like Talbot that could be promoted are already at this level but just don't want to go to South of Scotland League. Option B. You can have more than one promotion spot. Even if don't every other league at SPFL level have 4 teams play off for 1 promotion place. All non league teams could be invited to take part in Junior Cup with teams promoted to Lowland League still taking part as most prestigious and well known non league trophy in Scotland. Maybe get a sponsor and more prize money too with more teams in Junior Cup too (if they want to take part) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Thing is, option B shouldn't be a complete non-starter if we're looking to implement an equitable and coherent non-league pyramid. The current LL is first and foremost a league covering the Edinburgh area and the Borders with a few outliers - effectively a rebrand of the old EoS Premier. A three-region model is the closest approach to the realities of demographics of the country - as things stand we've still got the nonsense of the SHFL which covers a large area but with 18 clubs and some 15% of the population also having 50% of the potential chance of promotion to League status. Well said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, Goalie Hamish said: Totally agree but you're not going to get it straight from the off. England's pyramid has kept evolving over 30 or more years, we've hardly started. Oh yeah, I know self-interest will rule the day from all sides. .. SJFA: "We want as little to change as we can get away with...." LL: " But...but...we were here first..." SHFL: "f**k off. You're not getting in". SFA: "Pyramid implemented. Tea and bonuses all round". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, Hillonearth said: Oh yeah, I know self-interest will rule the day from all sides. .. SJFA: "We want as little to change as we can get away with...." LL: " But...but...we were here first..." SHFL: "f**k off. You're not getting in". SFA: "Pyramid implemented. Tea and bonuses all round". LOL were you at the meeting caller? Seriously though, get your foot in the door and drive change from within. I don't think option A, Juniors sitting alongside the other two feeder leagues is a bad start. I'd ask those two leagues to join the Junior Cup as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Thing is, option B shouldn't be a complete non-starter. It absolutely should. It is absolutely unjustifiable for the SJFA to turn up at this late stage and ask not only to be entered above tier 6 but that they are a mile away for those clubs to meet the standards of tier 5 which they want.I really don't see what would be wrong with a WoS league being added to tier 6, with negotiations between the remaining junior clubs and tier 6 clubs on merging. It's the simplest solution, avoids the big problems with too many leagues at one level and should get rid of overlap eventually. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 49 minutes ago, Goalie Hamish said: Been emailed tonight the questionnaire from the SJFA re pyramid meeting on 5th January. Two options for the Juniors joining the Pyramid en-masse were discussed: A: West and East Superleagues sit alongside East and South of Scotland Leagues with play-off for promotion to Lowland League B: West and East Superleagues sit alongside Lowland League and play off with Highland League for SPFL promotion Says the SFA favour option A, but the SJFA wanted option B discussed as well. Option A more likely to be accepted. Start date listed as 2019-20. If either proposal happens, SJFA seems to remain intact within pyramid, and clubs being promoted to Lowland could retain place in Junior Cup via a rules revision. North Juniors need licence and floodlights to join Highland League. Questionnaire ask clubs if Junior football should join the pyramid, which option they prefer A or B, and also a question as to whether they have the facilities to be licenced, to be returned by end of month. Interesting developments, would allow clubs to remain Junior and become licenced and get into Lowland. Option A - you might as well try to integrate the EoSFL and SoSFL teams into the Junior regions given there's a lot less of them Option B - daft to have west/east leagues at the same level as one covering the both of them, again you might as well integrate them all into West/East regions at tier 5. And there's always the question of whether it is right that the ~50 Senior + Junior clubs in the north and the ~160 Senior + Junior clubs in the lowlands have one SPFL play-off semi-final spot each. If you have West/East leagues at tier 5 you can then have a play-off like the ones used in Leagues One and Two for promotion: automatic relegation for the 42nd team, with the 41st involved in a play-off against one of the regional champions, and the other two champions playing off as well for promotion. The question on whether they have the facilities to be licensed is a good one though, would be interesting to know just how many are close to a licence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 It absolutely should. It is absolutely unjustifiable for the SJFA to turn up at this late stage and ask not only to be entered above tier 6 but that they are a mile away for those clubs to meet the standards of tier 5 which they want. I really don't see what would be wrong with a WoS league being added to tier 6, with negotiations between the remaining junior clubs and tier 6 clubs on merging. It's the simplest solution, avoids the big problems with too many leagues at one level and should get rid of overlap eventually. Then you could get the situation where likes of Glenafton or Talbot going for league then only one promotion spot to Lowland League and realise will play Edinburgh University, Edusport and Vale of Leithen then think twice about winning the league. Would take 6-8 years to get a true level at least.... This is one of many reasons why a Lowland League West should be seriously especially with large population and high standard of teams in East and West Region Super Premier Leagues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, parsforlife said: It absolutely should. It is absolutely unjustifiable for the SJFA to turn up at this late stage and ask not only to be entered above tier 6 but that they are a mile away for those clubs to meet the standards of tier 5 which they want. I really don't see what would be wrong with a WoS league being added to tier 6, with negotiations between the remaining junior clubs and tier 6 clubs on merging. It's the simplest solution, avoids the big problems with too many leagues at one level and should get rid of overlap eventually. Quote 2 in my previous post pretty much covers it, I'd suggest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, Shannon said: Then you could get the situation where likes of Glenafton or Talbot going for league then only one promotion spot to Lowland League and realise will play Edinburgh University, Edusport and Vale of Leithen then think twice about winning the league. Would take 6-8 years to get a true level at least.... Lowland League is going to two relegation spots aren't they? if not they surely will if this happens, then you'd have a 4 way play-off for two spots. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Goalie Hamish said: It says the SFA proposed that option It doesn't say the SFA proposed it... And if you transpose "SFA" with "Stewart Regan" the whole thing starts to unravel. The options are what the SJFA tabled at the meeting - nobody in the LL, SoS or EoS support it. Now they are asking their Junior assoc members for comment. It doesn't help that they've mixed up the Option A text with the Option B diagrams... but irrespective of those errors, neither arrangement is viable or realistic. Timescales: Season 2019/20 it suggests. Edited February 9, 2018 by Che Dail 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Quote 2 in my previous post pretty much covers it, I'd suggest [emoji4] It does roughly.We can't move on from that scenario with the SJFA containing to refuse to give any ground. Their attitude didn't fly 5 years ago and won't now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Near enough 5 years since the Lowland League kicked off and its taken all that time for the SJFA to narrow down their options from 3 to 2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Che Dail said: It doesn't say the SFA proposed it... And if you transpose "SFA" with "Stewart Regan" the whole thing starts to unravel. The options are what the SJFA tabled at the meeting - nobody in the LL, SoS or EoS support it. Now they are asking their Junior assoc members for comment. It doesn't help that they've mixed up the Option A text with the Option B diagrams... but irrespective of those errors, neither arrangement is viable or realistic. Timescales: Season 2019/20 it suggests. This was the quote from the document "A meeting was arranged for 5th January with the undernoted proposal A being promoted by the SFA and a request by the SJFA for discussion and consideration, in parallel, of proposal B. Represented at the meeting were the SFA, SHFL, SLFL, EoS, SoS and SJFA (T.A. Johnston and I. McQueen.)" So I'm taking that at face value. Doesn't bode well for professional presentations that the two diagrams are the wrong way round. Who is I.McQueen? Edited February 10, 2018 by Goalie Hamish 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glensmad Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Doesn't bode well for professional presentations that the two diagrams are the wrong way round. I noticed that as well, it confused me for a while till I worked out what the error was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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