Junior football, what is the future?

[GNU_Linux]

The reason that the WRSJFA backed Option Z was down to the fact that they had been assured by the SFA that it had the support of the LL. The EOSL weren't keen on it, but Petrie claimed he would push it through regardless.

I can't see the LL agreeing to split on account of the simple fact tier 5 requires a licence & currently one west region club (Girvan) has one. Also the issue that the SPFL could object to splitting via the Professional Game Body as it'd have direct implications on the tier 4/5 playoff. Also option z would've seen the ERJFA slot in somewhere which is non-starter due to opposition by LL/EOS from day one due to the EOS already existing & about half the ERJFA being clubs outside of LL territory.

[FairWeatherFan]

23 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

There you go.
From your own fair hand.

Yes and...?

You see this as some sort of conspiracy and that some how the SFA have been conned.

Whereas it has been public knowledge the entire time that there are people within pyramid leagues that have fulfilled multiple roles.

You're as deluded as the people that thought that because the SFA & SJFA have offices in Hampden that makes TJ and the SFA board best buds.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

4 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

...Also the issue that the SPFL could object to splitting via the Professional Game Body as it'd have direct implications on the tier 4/5 playoff...

There were posters on here stating that they had been told at the west region meeting that both the LL and SPFL were on board with Option Z. The HL:LL boundary had to be shifted for it to work so the HL and SPFL both needed to agree as well.

Edited February 6, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Burnie_man]

On 31/01/2019 at 10:37, Beenzon-Toste said:

I'm fair looking forward to this thread later tonight or early tomorrow after the news comes filtering out of tonight's meeting of the West Region clubs at Hampden.

Fully expecting Burnieman to go into melt-down after all his scaremongering and anti-junior shit-stirring comes back and smacks him right in his arse.

Here's what I reckon is on the cards for tonight -

Clubs informed that they are now part of the SFA Pyramid and will be in at level 6 - Premiership, Level 7 - Championship, Level 8 - League 1 and Level 9 - League 2.

No need for any more talk of a WoSL, SFA won't sanction it.

Clubs that get a licence and win the Premiership will enter play-offs for promotion into LL.

Clydebank will stay put because the route back to the 'Senior Leagues' has now been provided and this satisfies their AGM decision.

League reconstruction will be discussed to allow for an early finish of the Premiership leaders for the purposes of the play-offs.

Discipline procedures will be aligned with the SFA.

A year down the line Beenze, nearly there eh.... 

[Born To Run]

We’ve officially entered the realms of unsubstantiated guesswork in this thread, it seems. Just as well we’ll get some clarity provided shortly.

For the avoidance of doubt, the SJFA were absolutely given the opportunity to join the pyramid by the other non-league bodies. Any suspicion of an “old pals” stitch up to remove them from talks is ridiculous.

The issue has been the SJFA’s insistence on moving over as a combined unit. The West Region could already be planning ahead to a first pyramid season if not for that condition.

[Che Dail]

On 29/01/2019 at 18:17, Che Dail said:

Pyramid entry was supposedly a 'done deal' but now it looks like the SFA are stepping back and letting others get on with it, which is fair enough. 

Is there anything definitive, in writing, anywhere, which confirms that progress has been made and that pyramid entry can be delivered by SJFA for next season?

It really doesn't need a majority of clubs to make a WoS league happen. 

It just requires another 9 to step up to the plate with Clydebank and get the thing done.

It looks like this is not going to get sorted by others, the clubs must do it for themselves.

The EoS assoc would no doubt extend their offer from last season and assist with rules / constitution and any questions that might crop up - it's all boiler-plate stuff substituting the word 'East' with 'West'. 

It needs 10 clubs with a common purpose and commitment and 4 competent people in the whole of the West of Scotland to take up the office bearer positions.

Copy the website using exactly the same format as EoS with a contact email address at the top and an application form to fill out.

SOMEBODY PLEASE DO IT.

Or we'll all be here in another years time, still fannying about and wondering what is going on behind the scenes.

 

Still fannying about a year on right enough eh... ah well, ye of little faith.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Che Dail

[Burnie_man]

6 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Still fannying about a year on right enough eh... ah well, ye of little faith.

Nearly there Che with a 12 month delay  (what's next week lottery numbers  )

[Robert James]

38 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

A year down the line Beenze, nearly there eh.... 

(Rumour) .  In order to enter the pyramid for next season, the West Region clubs will  override TJ's requirement that the ERJFA must simultaneously enter at Tier 6.   

[Beenzon-Toste]

Did he aye?  Please share the email / letter / minute of these assurances.  If you can't we will all assume you just made it up in your own head.
 

Why would TJ ask the clubs to support an option that he knew had zero chance of being accepted?
Someone please explain that one to me.
Surely someone, somewhere give him the wrong information. He's been played and made to look foolish by passing on what he was assured was probably the best way forward for the SJFA. Was it the SFA? Was it there way of backing him into a corner with no way out? It was their options that had been put forward. Did they already know that none of them would get agreement?
Did the LL tell the SFA that they would support option Z, with the knowledge that they wouldn't?

[Guest Moomintroll]

Why would TJ ask the clubs to support an option that he knew had zero chance of being accepted?
Someone please explain that one to me.
Surely someone, somewhere give him the wrong information. He's been played and made to look foolish by passing on what he was assured was probably the best way forward for the SJFA. Was it the SFA? Was it there way of backing him into a corner with no way out? It was their options that had been put forward. Did they already know that none of them would get agreement?
Did the LL tell the SFA that they would support option Z, with the knowledge that they wouldn't?

Because he is "hinging it oot" as long as he can to maximise his earnings and get as big a redundancy payout as he can. This has been obvious for quite a while now.

[Burnie_man]

12 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Did the LL tell the SFA that they would support option Z, with the knowledge that they wouldn't?

Aye because I'm sure the LL Board have nothing better to do than to deliberately mislead the SFA President for a laugh.   Jeezo 

[Marshmallo]

21 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Why would TJ ask the clubs to support an option that he knew had zero chance of being accepted?
Someone please explain that one to me.
Surely someone, somewhere give him the wrong information. He's been played and made to look foolish by passing on what he was assured was probably the best way forward for the SJFA. Was it the SFA? Was it there way of backing him into a corner with no way out? It was their options that had been put forward. Did they already know that none of them would get agreement?
Did the LL tell the SFA that they would support option Z, with the knowledge that they wouldn't?

Phrasing it as questions in the style of LongTimeLurker. Some caper.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

6 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Why would TJ ask the clubs to support an option that he knew had zero chance of being accepted?
Someone please explain that one to me.
Surely someone, somewhere give him the wrong information. He's been played and made to look foolish by passing on what he was assured was probably the best way forward for the SJFA. Was it the SFA? Was it there way of backing him into a corner with no way out? It was their options that had been put forward. Did they already know that none of them would get agreement?
Did the LL tell the SFA that they would support option Z, with the knowledge that they wouldn't?

I don't get why people who are pro pyramid or pro junior just ignore what they want to ignore and believe what they want to believe.
Beenzan Taste, I've already replied to what you said, (in the box below) and you have chosen to ignore it.

In order to be pro pyramid, you have to have good reasons why the juniors should join
if you are pro junior you have to have good reason why juniors should stay.

lets put it this way, whatever comes on this thread, there is a 99% chance that more junior teams will be leaving the junior leagues to join the pyramid and when that starts to happen it will leave a negative effect on the rest of the junior level and thus you might, as i expect, seeing more juniors leave the junior associaiton

 

2 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

yeah I get that impression

 

Errm not my understanding, the four committee me members/chairmen I spoke to all stated that it was the west region association member who said they have spoken directly to LL and that the LL said they would back option Z, that's why the four members were happy to go along with this.  At no time where they told it was the SFA who stated this, well to me anyways

That is FACT. Now there could be the LL said lies to the west region in order to make them look fools, which is really what you are stating has happened or

The SJFA want their members to go for option Z as they NEED all junior teams to go as one in order for the junior position power struggles.  If the west went alone, then the junior cake dangle would be gone as they would only be left with North region and the East region.
the SJFA are obviously upset that the LL, SOS EOS wont accept the East region joining in separately and in at Tier 6. Common sense tells us that wouldn't be allowed to happen.
let me stipulate again, at no time did those four members say it was backed by the SFA.


And to be honest, the SJFA organization is so shit. If I was TJ and the LL said they would back it, Id get it in writing as proof.
I don't believe the LL would ever say that and if they had said it to me if I was in power similar to TJ I would have got proof, SIMPLES

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Che Dail]

31 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Why would TJ ask the clubs to support an option that he knew had zero chance of being accepted?
Someone please explain that one to me.
Surely someone, somewhere give him the wrong information. He's been played and made to look foolish by passing on what he was assured was probably the best way forward for the SJFA. Was it the SFA? Was it there way of backing him into a corner with no way out? It was their options that had been put forward. Did they already know that none of them would get agreement?
Did the LL tell the SFA that they would support option Z, with the knowledge that they wouldn't?

I'm sorry to say but it sounds like a man sadly deluded or simply deliberately misleading people. 

In the last two years of this "done deal" debate there have be no firm offers of any such 'assurances'.  No official communication other than a series of badly presented graphics cobbled together on Powerpoint, one of which included the ill-fated Option Z.  The SFA have got an in-house design team - look at the website and all the promo information that comes out on a daily basis.  If they were taking it seriously they'd have handed the copy and diagrams to a graduate to fancy it up for issue, with SFA logos and trendy straplines like "BE BRAVE" appended.  The options didn't look like they were official SFA docs at all. 

How people were taken in by all this for so long is unfathomable.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Che Dail

[Beenzon-Toste]

I'm sorry to say but it sounds like a man sadly deluded or simply deliberately misleading people. 
In the last two years of this "done deal" debate there have be no firm offers of any such 'assurances'.  No official communication other than a series of badly presented graphics cobbled together on Powerpoint, one of which included the ill-fated Option Z.  The SFA have got an in-house design team - look at the website and all the promo information that comes out on a daily basis.  If they were taking it seriously they'd have handed the copy and diagrams to a graduate to fancy it up for issue, with SFA logos and trendy straplines like "BE BRAVE" appended.  The options didn't look like they were official SFA docs at all. 
How people were taken in by all this for so long is unfathomable.

WOW.
So, I take it you mean that none of this came from the SFA or the PWG?
It's all a fabrication from TJ to mislead his clubs.
Completely made up by him alone.
A work of fiction.
Really?

[Bestsinceslicebread]

2 minutes ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

WOW.
So, I take it you mean that none of this came from the SFA or the PWG?
It's all a fabrication from TJ to mislead his clubs.
Completely made up by him alone.
A work of fiction.
Really?

honestly, what idiot would put it to his member clubs without getting proof from the LL, SFA of whatever league or association that option Z was backed.

ESPECIALLY when everyone knows that its not in any way worthwhile for the senior leagues to accept option Z

[Beenzon-Toste]

Because he is "hinging it oot" as long as he can to maximise his earnings and get as big a redundancy payout as he can. This has been obvious for quite a while now.

And that's your answer?
He's 'hinging it oot' for a big payout.
Big gamble there.
Surely he could be facing dismissal for gross misconduct in office by deliberately misleading his employers?

[Beenzon-Toste]

honestly, what idiot would put it to his member clubs without getting proof from the LL, SFA of whatever league or association that option Z was backed.
ESPECIALLY when everyone knows that its not in any way worthwhile for the senior leagues to accept option Z

honestly, what idiot would put it to his member clubs without believing that the people in the meeting with him, including Ian McQueen, were genuine when they told him that the LL, SFA of whatever league or association that option Z was backed.
ESPECIALLY when everyone knows that its not in any way worthwhile for the senior leagues to accept option Z

[gaz5]

honestly, what idiot would put it to his member clubs without believing that the people in the meeting with him, including Ian McQueen, were genuine when they told him that the LL, SFA of whatever league or association that option Z was backed.
ESPECIALLY when everyone knows that its not in any way worthwhile for the senior leagues to accept option Z

This is really simple Beenzon.

Over the past 2 years every position communicated from one location has proven to be false and every position communicated from the other proven to be accurate.

From done deal, to Tier 5, to option Z to not offering the West what was communicated at the EoS meeting.

Only one organisation has actively threatened to send their member clubs to the wall for even talking pyramid.

If you can't see with your own eyes, even just on the balance of probability over the past 2 years who is being consistently disingenuous and who is acting with integrity, then more fool you and good luck to you.

But you're pissing into the wind trying to convince anyone else who's been paying attention.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

1 minute ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

honestly, what idiot would put it to his member clubs without believing that the people in the meeting with him, including Ian McQueen, were genuine when they told him that the LL, SFA of whatever league or association that option Z was backed.
ESPECIALLY when everyone knows that its not in any way worthwhile for the senior leagues to accept option Z

No one, NOT ONE PERSON has said it was backed by the SFA, that's not what was put to the four members of four different junior teams whom they were representing, two of whom are my friends.   Also for your information I don't watch senior football, Im involved in youth games and go to junior games each weekend. I aint blinkered in any way junior or senior. I want the best for football and I believe the more join the pyramid the better it will become.

Why would the LL go for 
(Only Option Z would involve any clubs necessarily changing Leagues or becoming Senior, or would have any implications for the Licensing process (floodlights etc).

When we know most of the teams in the junior league are not able to go in at Tier 5 due to not having the right facilities under current rules, that's just for starters.

 

Option W for clarity folks I believe was 

(W - the WRSJFA Premiership ONLY is linked into the Pyramid at Tier 6 (i.e. below the Lowland League and equal in status to the EoSL Premier Division and the SoSL) for season 2020-21. The champions of each, IF LICENSED, qualify to play off for promotion to the LL. The WRSJFA Championship, League One and League Two will effectively be placed at Tiers 7 to 8. The ERSJFA and the NRSJFA remain outside the Pyramid.)

 

Option W was the easiest and quickest fix, if that would have happened it would eb easy to get the East and North to join the flollwoing season