Junior football, what is the future?

[patriot1]

Isn't there talk of the SFA voting on taking away Scottish Cup entry from non licensed clubs this summer?

That would make the Alex Jack Cup pointless. If it doesn't lose it's Cup spot then it makes sense to either bring the West teams into it or to create a similar competition in the West. 

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, energyzone said:

Bit of a difference there regarding the Alex Jack cup - is this just for East clubs or is it open to all?

The Alex Jack Cup is only for those in the EoSFL. Its a competition for those clubs that are not members of the SFA and played during the same dates as the Scottish Cup. In 2016-17 a SoSFL equivalent was created called the Alba Cup. This was done so winners of the Alex Jack Cup and Alba can playoff for the South & East Cup Winners Shield for a place in the next season's Scottish Cup.

So there's no obvious reason for Kilwinning and others to make reference to it. Unless participation in it has been discussed on some level or for the consideration of creating a WoSFL version.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

Isn't there talk of the SFA voting on taking away Scottish Cup entry from non licensed clubs this summer?

That would make the Alex Jack Cup pointless. If it doesn't lose it's Cup spot then it makes sense to either bring the West teams into it or to create a similar competition in the West. 

Still not pointless even with the loss of a Scottish Cup place. It had long existed before such a prize was offered. Next year its looking good to have 27 teams in it. Which will only decrease as clubs become licenced. It provides those non-SFA clubs with something to do during the early rounds of the Scottish Cup. Winner will probably profit from the final and get to win a trophy. And winning something can be a rare occurence for those that compete in the cup.

[Black Pennel]

...Or Colin has said something relating to it and the Record has just printed any old shite same as usual....

[superbigal]

The lowland league were very clear about maintaining integrity of a clear geographical boundary for the new territory.
Presumably for them to keep to this statement the 2 anomalies may need to be "persuaded" to move in due course?
If someone can almost draw a line between the south west and east, how far into the wrong territory would the 2 teams be ?

[LongTimeLurker]

25 minutes ago, energyzone said:

Bit of a difference there regarding the Alex Jack cup - is this just for East clubs or is it open to all?

It's an EoSFA competition. WoS teams will not be part of the EoSFA, so looks like deliberate scaremongering similar to the midweek games stuff or all the nonsense about the LL only cherrypicking a few clubs for the WoS. It's definitely feasible for WoS teams to enter a revamped no-replay SJC, if the SJFA agree the necessary changes. People should be arguing over whether it's sensible to do that rather than coming up with bogus reasons for why it's not possible.

[parkcircus]

40 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-pyramid-masterplan-agreed-juniors-21753119

Colin Boyd “We are probably going into a 16 or 18 team league. There will be the South Challenge Cup, the Alex Jack Cup and we will need to create a West League Cup. That gives us three cups and adding a fourth in the Junior Cup I just don’t see possible."

Yet you've got quotes like that from someone involved in the process. Now nobody gets everything right when talking about the inner workings of the pyramid, but you don't just throw out the Alex Jack Cup without someone trying to explain what it is and why its relevant to the pyramid. Maybe that means a few entering instead of the SJC or the WoSFL creating their own version who knows.

I doubt it will mean all non-SFA WoSFL members entering since that could take the Alex Jack Cup to 90 odd teams to the Alba Cup's 9.

I meant a cup for non licensed clubs the same as the Alex Jack cup

[Eck’s played a blinder]

Bonnyton will be in ............. 

[Lowland team]

28 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The Alex Jack Cup is only for those in the EoSFL. Its a competition for those clubs that are not members of the SFA and played during the same dates as the Scottish Cup. In 2016-17 a SoSFL equivalent was created called the Alba Cup. This was done so winners of the Alex Jack Cup and Alba can playoff for the South & East Cup Winners Shield for a place in the next season's Scottish Cup.

So there's no obvious reason for Kilwinning and others to make reference to it. Unless participation in it has been discussed on some level or for the consideration of creating a WoSFL version.

Not exactly correct there.the alex cup was played for by clubs not in membership of the sfa.the reason to use it for Scottish entry was to try and of set the imbalance with the juniors who only had girvin as a member.the other avenues for the juniors was league winners and the junior cup winner. at the time only the eos champion got through to the Scottish.to allow this they had to play off with the sos.again causing a imbalance.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, parkcircus said:

I meant a cup for non licensed clubs the same as the Alex Jack cup

That's what I was thinking it could be, and Alex Jack just used as a short hand that people understand. Certainly with Drumpchapel United, potentially Bonnyton Thistle and whoever does not remain in the SJFA would fancy a cup, and possible route into the Scottish Cup like the other leagues.

[parkcircus]

2 minutes ago, parkcircus said:

I meant a cup for non licensed clubs the same as the Alex Jack cup

 

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

That's what I was thinking it could be, and Alex Jack just used as a short hand that people understand. Certainly with Drumpchapel United, potentially Bonnyton Thistle and whoever does not remain in the SJFA would fancy a cup, and possible route into the Scottish Cup like the other leagues.

Yeah, at the time I didn't know other clubs hadn't been doing the same research into the EOS as us, assumed others knew what I was talking about, so for parity next season the WOSFL should have a

Challenge Cup (All Clubs from Tier 5 down)

WOS Cup (All WOSFL Clubs)

Unlicensed Cup ( All WOSFL Clubs without an SFA License)

There are also cup for no premier league teams (Kings Cup) but that wouldn't come in till year 2

 

[LongTimeLurker]

5 minutes ago, Lowland team said:

Not exactly correct there.the alex cup was played for by clubs not in membership of the sfa.the reason to use it for Scottish entry was to try and of set the imbalance with the juniors who only had girvin as a member.the other avenues for the juniors was league winners and the junior cup winner. at the time only the eos champion got through to the Scottish.to allow this they had to play off with the sos.again causing a imbalance.

That's my recollection of how the Alex Jack got its Scottish Cup place as well. The SJC could legitimately be viewed as the Alex Jack equivalent for the WoS as long as they can get everybody to enter. How they handle clubs that are not in the SJFA either because they never were or choose to leave is the issue that is lumbering over the horizon.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, parkcircus said:

 

Yeah, at the time I didn't know other clubs hadn't been doing the same research into the EOS as us, assumed others knew what I was talking about, so for parity next season the WOSFL should have a

Challenge Cup (All Clubs from Tier 5 down)

WOS Cup (All WOSFL Clubs)

Unlicensed Cup ( All WOSFL Clubs without an SFA License)

There are also cup for no premier league teams (Kings Cup) but that wouldn't come in till year 2

I'd certainly like to see the WoSFL fall into the model the EoSFL has stumbled into with their growth. Even streamlines it by just having the WoS Cup instead of the Qualifying Cup & EOS League Cup.

[Pyramidic]

18 minutes ago, Eck’s played a blinder said:

Bonnyton will be in ............. 

I am sure you are right but please post some verification to put our minds at rest.

[FairWeatherFan]

27 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It's an EoSFA competition. WoS teams will not be part of the EoSFA, so looks like deliberate scaremongering similar to the midweek games stuff or all the nonsense about the LL only cherrypicking a few clubs for the WoS. It's definitely feasible for WoS teams to enter a revamped no-replay SJC, if the SJFA agree the necessary changes. People should be arguing over whether it's sensible to do that rather than coming up with bogus reasons for why it's not possible.

Where's the scaremongering? The LL, EoS and SoS all signed off on clubs being able to compete in the Junior Cup. There's a signed statement to that. Its a fact.

Midweek games thats a fact. Why because every cup competition gets played on a midweek at some point. Even the Scottish Cup once it goes to replays.

The Alex Jack Cup point has been clarified as a shorthand for the WoSFL possibly creating its own version. Why? Because not everyone in the league is going to end licenced or in the SJFA. So why shouldn't those clubs have the same type of competition that the EoSFL and SoSFL have as well.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The SJC could legitimately be viewed as the Alex Jack equivalent for the WoS as long as they can get everybody to enter.

So Girvan, Banks O'dee and future SFA members will be excluded from the SJC then?

[LongTimeLurker]

You are just being argumentative for the sake of it.

[LongTimeLurker]

11 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

I am sure you are right but please post some verification to put our minds at rest.

He definitely seems to be in the loop on SoS matters if you check his old posts.

[Robert James]

Channel 4 news flash

Boris Johnson taken into intensive care.

[Guest]

Where's the scaremongering? The LL, EoS and SoS all signed off on clubs being able to compete in the Junior Cup. There's a signed statement to that. Its a fact.
Midweek games thats a fact. Why because every cup competition gets played on a midweek at some point. Even the Scottish Cup once it goes to replays.
The Alex Jack Cup point has been clarified as a shorthand for the WoSFL possibly creating its own version. Why? Because not everyone in the league is going to end licenced or in the SJFA. So why shouldn't those clubs have the same type of competition that the EoSFL and SoSFL have as well.

I was just going to say this, in fact we have had regularly scheduled midweek games in all competitions so far this season.

Its not scaremongering its looking at factual information (amount of games, amount of clubs, amount of Saturdays, replays, call offs) and coming to a conclusion (there will be midweek games for everyone) its just the LL/wos competitions will take priority on a Saturday, meaning the junior Cup will likely be played midweek, particularly after the usual winter call offs.