Junior football, what is the future?

[Burnie_man]

How many different accounts is that you've now had on here to continually slag him off?
Its depressing that people like you are so hell bent on a personal vandetta that you arent prepared to debate the issues at hand.

Really north worth bothering about drs, just hit the report button.

[Burnie_man]

I think that's a point of some compromise. Supposedly Tayside clubs don't want to go Highland, and Highland League clubs don't want to go Tayside. If the SoS can have equal standing with the EoS Premier and West Premiership then a Tayside Premier could as well. It just needs set geographic boundaries so there's no overlap to get the EoS on board.
A Lowland League 2 would also aid a compromise between them all.

Has anyone seen any evidence that HL dont want Tayside? They are already in the HL area but it hasn't been an issue up until now. The HL are not known for having much of a progressive outlook right enough.

[Kilbowie Benches]

25 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I think that's a point of some compromise. Supposedly Tayside clubs don't want to go Highland, and Highland League clubs don't want to go Tayside. If the SoS can have equal standing with the EoS Premier and West Premiership then a Tayside Premier could as well. It just needs set geographic boundaries so there's no overlap to get the EoS on board.

A Lowland League 2 would also aid a compromise between them all.

Junior clubs in West Lothian and Fife are at liberty to apply for membership of the EoSL.They shouldn’t be forced to move to another Assiciation if they don’t want to!

If the EoSL don’t want the Tayside clubs but the SFA agree to move the LL line,then what?

[Marten]

32 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Junior clubs in West Lothian and Fife are at liberty to apply for membership of the EoSL.They shouldn’t be forced to move to another Assiciation if they don’t want to!

If the EoSL don’t want the Tayside clubs but the SFA agree to move the LL line,then what?

If they want access to the pyramid it's not unreasonable to ask them to move to the EoSL. It is unreasonable to expect to have 2 leagues in the pyramid covering the same area. If they don't want to move to the EoSL, they shouldn't be forced, but then they will have to stay outside the pyramid and imo also lose the possible Scottish Cup access.

[superbigal]

If they want access to the pyramid it's not unreasonable to ask them to move to the EoSL. It is unreasonable to expect to have 2 leagues in the pyramid covering the same area. If they don't want to move to the EoSL, they shouldn't be forced, but then they will have to stay outside the pyramid and imo also lose the possible Scottish Cup access.

That is my point.If the eos are in effect pushing to absorb the ersjfa, then they should really be accommodating to Tayside clubs in that association. I realise that means a new hl/ll line but so what.

The eos with the current teams and the total ersjfa on board would have over 70 clubs and easily be able to regionalise the feeders to their top 16 league.

You could easily see a Tayside region, a fife region and a Lothian and south region formed.

Actually it would just look like the ersjfa was a few reasons ago with one sl and 3 feeders. Geography extended slightly south.

Surely the stronger and wider the eos can become the better.

 

 

[Kilbowie Benches]

24 minutes ago, Marten said:

If they want access to the pyramid it's not unreasonable to ask them to move to the EoSL. It is unreasonable to expect to have 2 leagues in the pyramid covering the same area. If they don't want to move to the EoSL, they shouldn't be forced, but then they will have to stay outside the pyramid and imo also lose the possible Scottish Cup access.

Are they going to force Bonnyton Thistle to leave the SoS to join the West Juniors then because of the overlap?

Edited January 23, 2019 by Kilbowie Benches

[Marten]

4 minutes ago, superbigal said:

That is my point.If the eos are in effect pushing to absorb the ersjfa, then they should really be accommodating to Tayside clubs in that association. I realise that means a new hl/ll line but so what.

The eos with the current teams and the total ersjfa on board would have over 70 clubs and easily be able to regionalise the feeders to their top 16 league.

You could easily see a Tayside region, a fife region and a Lothian and south region formed.

Actually it would just look like the ersjfa was a few reasons ago with one sl and 3 feeders. Geography extended slightly south.

Surely the stronger and wider the eos can become the better.

 

 

Why do you keep blaming the EOS for not accommodating the Tayside teams? There is literally nothing they can do for them. Changing the boundary is not something the EOS can do or even influence. If the boundary gets changed and the EOS wouldn't accept Tayside teams, it will be a different story (and I wouldn't agree with that), but until anything gets changed, the EOS can't help those clubs.

[Marten]

4 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Are they going to force Bonnyton Thistle to leave the SoS to join the West Juniors then because of the overlap?

That's 1 club, so it's slightly different from a whole league. But ultimately if the West Juniors come in the pyramid, there should be some kind of boundary agreed with the SoS imo. Or the SoS can even be a feeder to a west league (LL West?).

[GNU_Linux]

Are they going to force Bonnyton Thistle to leave the SoS to join the West Juniors then because of the overlap?

Thats one club rather than than the 19 (I think) erjfa clubs that lie south of the tay line. Clubs from outside D&G have joined the SOS because its the only way into.the pyramid in the western half of the lowlands. I don't see Bonnyton being fine with being punted to the bottom west tier. Nor would the west clubs accept them being shoehorned into the west premiership at the expense of 3rd in the championship.

[superbigal]

Replying to Marten.

 

Agreed but holding out the olive branch to some teams while realising you are leaving behind a runt of clubs is well unfortunate.

The eos could push for a boundary change and they would really look like top fellows.

 

Do you agree that politically no one could then really argue ?

 

 

[pipedreamer]

4 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Are they going to force Bonnyton Thistle to leave the SoS to join the West Juniors then because of the overlap?

Bonnyton Thistle already play in a senior league. The overlap is small in the west, in the east you would have the two leagues covering the majority of the same footprint, minus tayside for EoS and Borders for ERSJFA. The situation is completely different.

[Kilbowie Benches]

So it’s ok to force a club to the bottom of the EoSL but not the West Juniors? 

Double standards are alive and well 

There will be no difference between Junior and Senior in the pyramid as you guys keep reminding people on here.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Kilbowie Benches

[Marten]

5 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Replying to Marten.

 

Agreed but holding out the olive branch to some teams while realising you are leaving behind a runt of clubs is well unfortunate.

The eos could push for a boundary change and they would really look like top fellows.

 

Do you agree that politically no one could then really argue ?

 

 

I do agree with you on that. It's a difficult subject though as I can see the argument for including them in the HL area as well. Due to the way the population is spread across Scotland, Tayside in the LL area would really make the difference between LL and HL in terms of the area they serve too big. I wouldn't be against copying the junior system of 3 regions, which would solve a lot of issues. But will the SPFL agree to that?

We won't know what the EOS have done behind the scenes obviously. They have stated that they got at least 1 enquiry from a club north of the Tay who they were unable to accommodate. Nobody other than the EOS and the club involved (and who can that be?) will know if anything has been discussed with any parties afterwards.

[GNU_Linux]

So it’s ok to force a club to the bottom of the EoSL but not the West Juniors?  Double standards are alive and well [emoji38]

There will be no difference between Junior and Senior in the pyramid as you guys keep reminding people on here.

 

Bonnyton are at tier 6 in the pyramid. ERJFA clubs are not part of the pyramid & despite what you claim/believe there is zero guarantee the ERJFA will be at tier 6 based on evidence such as the EOS minutes posted the other & the EOS right of veto which they will use against any attempt at a league in the same area at the same level. If a club from a non-pyramid league joins a pyramid league they enter at its lowest level unless there is an agreement between the league & said club. 

 

 

[Kilbowie Benches]

The EoS are making a big deal about overlapping clubs and according to the experts on here that’s what’s stopping the ERSJFA entering  the pyramid at tier 6.Theyd be happy for a Tayside Junior League being in.So why not allow the ERSJFA in and if a club wants to stay in the Juniors from West Lothian or Fife just let them? The West Juniors are not shouting about Bonnyton being in the SoS at tier 6.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Kilbowie Benches

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The EoS are making a big deal about overlapping clubs and according to the experts on here that’s what’s stopping the ERSJFA entering  the pyramid at tier 6.Theyd be happy for a Tayside Junior League being in.So why not allow the ERSJFA in and if a club wants to stay in the Juniors from West Lothian or Fife just let them? The West Juniors are not shouting about Bonnyton being in the SoS at tier 6.

FFS  

[GNU_Linux]

The EoS are making a big deal about overlapping clubs and according to the experts on here that’s what’s stopping the ERSJFA entering  the pyramid at tier 6.Theyd be happy for a Tayside Junior League being in.So why not allow the ERSJFA in and if a club wants to stay in the Juniors from West Lothian or Fife just let them? The West Juniors are not shouting about Bonnyton being in the SoS at tier 6.

Again Bonnyton are one single club. Should we punt Kello to the SOS then as they are from D&G? You cant compare isolated cases of clubs to an entire league entering in next to a league thats been the established pathway league to the Lowland League for that region since 2013.

[Burnie_man]

I’m not aware or have seen anything to suggest the EoSFL want a merger, all I see is that they are open for new applications for clubs in their catchment area, which in ERJFA terms means the WL and Fife clubs only (plus Scone and Kinnoull).  I very much doubt whether anyone on the EoS Board has even spoken to anyone at the ERJFA.  I’ve said before the SFA should bring them together for a chat, I’m sure the EoS wouldn’t object, and would be a better use of the PWG’s time than just having the SJFA there.

Would the EoSFL increase their catchment area to accommodate Tayside clubs if they could? I’m not sure, you’ve seen the comments of the Fauldhouse manager, regular travel from Lothians to Tayside is financially challenging to clubs, even at Superleague level. It increases the area of the EoS all the way upto Forfar and Brechin, and of course if any of these clubs made the Lowland League (or a future LL2) they could have trips to the likes of Dalbeattie.

Maybe at that point you then need to look at a stand alone senior league covering Tayside, Perthshire & Angus (I make that 18 clubs in the ERJFA, plus Jeanfield in the EoS, plus Montrose Roselea in the NRJFA, plus the likes of Breadalbane who want to join). That would make more sense and brings us right back to the opinion of the EoS that they have no objections to a WoS league and a “Tayside” league being formed.  You can then have a debate over whether it feeds the HL or the LL.

[superbigal]

I’m not aware or have seen anything to suggest the EoSFL want a merger, all I see is that they are open for new applications for clubs in their catchment area, which in ERJFA terms means the WL and Fife clubs only (plus Scone and Kinnoull).  I very much doubt whether anyone on the EoS Board has even spoken to anyone at the ERJFA.  I’ve said before the SFA should bring them together for a chat, I’m sure the EoS wouldn’t object, and would be a better use of the PWG’s time than just having the SJFA there. Would the EoSFL increase their catchment area to accommodate Tayside clubs if they could? I’m not sure, you’ve seen the comments of the Fauldhouse manager, regular travel from Lothians to Tayside is financially challenging to clubs, even at Superleague level. It increases the area of the EoS all the way upto Forfar and Brechin, and of course if any of these clubs made the Lowland League (or a future LL2) they could have trips to the likes of Dalbeattie. Maybe at that point you then need to look at a stand alone senior league covering Tayside, Perthshire & Angus (I make that 18 clubs in the ERJFA, plus Jeanfield in the EoS, plus Montrose Roselea in the NRJFA, plus the likes of Breadalbane who want to join). That would make more sense and brings us right back to the opinion of the EoS that they have no objections to a WoS league and a “Tayside” league being formed.  You can then have a debate over whether it feeds the HL or the LL.   

 

 

Surely though a quality eos super that happened to say have lochee or forfar we in it eventually would be okay ?Extending the boundary and thus the amount of clubs can only help with regionilising at the lower levels, where I appreciate it is financially needed.    

Saves having conferences again next season possibly and going straight to regions. All current Tayside juniors likely forming one of those.

 

Also means no queue jumping for say tayport who might join st Andrews and crossgates in a fife region

 assuming saints or gates don't finish top 6

 

 

 

 

 

[Marten]

3 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Surely though a quality eos super that happened to say have lochee or forfar we in it eventually would be okay ?Extending the boundary and thus the amount of clubs can only help with regionilising at the lower levels, where I appreciate it is financially needed.

 

 

 

If the boundary gets changed I don't think having the likes of Lochee in the EOS Premier would be that much of an issue. Jeanfield will almost certainly be in it next season already for example. In such a case I would advocate for further regionalisation on tier 7 though, with Dundee, Perthsire, Angus and possible North Fife in their own feeder league, to prevent travel getting too much for the level of the pyramid. A distance like Brechin to Hawick at tier 7 would not be appropriate imo.

Another question though is if there won't be some LL teams objecting against possible trips to Tayside. I can imagine Dalbeattie Star or Gretna having issues with that. That's why I can understand the 3 region system in the juniors, maybe that would be better at tier 5, but as said before that can be tricky to actually achieve.