Massive fire at high rise flats in London

[ayrmad]

10 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Apparently they don't know as in some cases whole families with no other ties in this country may be dead. They also don't know who was visiting or if folk were out  who haven't checked in etc.

I'm calling bullshit on that at least partly. If it is social housing they will have a rough idea who should be there. Also if it was my house and I had been out somewhere that night I might have thought the Polis or someone would be interested in knowing.

Estimates I have seen are 600 odd folk live there. I assume somebody somewhere is finding out how many are safe.

Given the time of day it happened it really doesn't bare thinking about how many could be dead.

I don't tend to get massively angry about terrorist stuff because whilst it's probably preventable to some extent - the causes are massively complex , exacerbated by mentally ill young men - who if not dead already would be subject to decades in jail. 

Stuff like this gets me utterly seething as its wholly preventable and the people who create the conditions that make it happen aren't diposessed, angry, confused or misled. They are incredibly wealthy people, looking to get more wealthy and even know they get caught out with something like this will get away with it.

It's not really a good reason not to give an estimate, they must have a reasonable idea how many people stayed in the block and how many have been accounted for, it's pish like this that really fucks me off about our MSM, they try and protect the establishment wherever possible, if it was up here and the SNP had some level of culpability you can bet your boots we would have high figures being put out without a seconds thought, they'd probably have the pictures of every one of them on the screen very regularly as well, ffs, they're showing pictures of about a dozen people when anyone with half a brain knows there are loads of them, obviously they don't appreciate that those seeking loved ones will be even more upset when they start to think that their family and/or friends must not mean too much.

Edited June 15, 2017 by ayrmad

[beefybake]

13 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Very much this.

The repercussions of having major civil unrest while we don't really have a government have probably been heavily emphaised to the media. And in some ways i don't blame them. However, if the number ebbs out from anguished folk or mouthy celebs, or even worse disgruntled firemen/coppers, they'll look even worse. Reckon they're hoping to keep it as is until Monday. 

150 is just a ludicrous number, awful. Shameful.

There seems to be a massive difference in numbers between the number of people officially declared dead + numbers of those in hospital compared to the number that the building had capacity for. The number of persons  being interviewed who've said... "I got out,,,,,," seems to be tiny.

In my view Lily Allan is correct.., the news is being managed.

Edited June 15, 2017 by beefybake

[Hillonearth]

8 minutes ago, beefybake said:

There seems to be a massive difference in numbers between the number of people officially declared dead + numbers of those in hospital compared to the number that the building had capacity for. The number of persons  being interviewed who've said... "I got out,,,,,," seems to be tiny.

In my view Lily Allan is correct.., the news is being managed.

And as if by magic her appearance on tonight's Newsnight has been pulled...

[williemillersmoustache]

2 minutes ago, beefybake said:

There seems to be a massive difference in numbers between the number of people officially declared dead + numbers of those in hospital compared to the number that the building had capacity for. The number of persons  being interviewed who've said... "I got out,,,,,," seems to be tiny.

In my view Lily Allan is correct.., the news is being managed.

It's difficult. With whole families gone and the nature of the remains (not much) it's a nightmare to identity and inform next of kin. Also it's not an airplane, we have no idea how many people were inside but, as Invergowrie Arab says, it's never stopped people from speculating before and because of the time it happened, we have to assume most residents were at home at the time. Hope we're all wrong. 

7 minutes ago, ThatBoyRonaldo said:

Triple figures, Jesus. We knew the death toll would rise but that is awful.

This has to lead to some serious change.

Seems, seems to be much more about existing legislation not being enforced rather than any new rules required. What have we forgotten about building concrete towers and not letting them burn down since the 60's? 

My opinion and Steve Bells:

[Cerberus]

 

[GeeJay]

The Lakanal House fire in 2009 (pictured below) killed six (during daytime when more chance of folk being away from the premesis), so you've got to fear what the total will be at Grenfell. If this was some terrorist incident we would no doubt be dropping drone bombs on Syria by now.

I watched the footage from Westminster Hall earlier where the 'enquiry' began. Nick Hurd, who was one of the 72 Tories that voted against the amendment to ensure all private landlords made certain their homes were “fit for human habitation”, chaired the event. He described it a number of times as a useful 'debate' when it was nothing of the sort, all the Labour MPs asked the chair for assurances that the now-homeless residents of Grenfell would be given secure accommodation in the local area from tonight onwards. Hurd mumbled and bluffed his way through some pathetically empty rhetoric, I paraphrase but bullshit like ''ah yes it is right and proper that this will be looked at in due course''. f**k off you Tory c**t.

There has also been plenty of speeches and praise about the reaction and work of the emergency services, which I agree with. However, we don't live in some third world country where that is a great achievement. It should be the absolute bare minimum. What is the government actually doing above and beyond this to secure the safety of the residents?

I don't wish for any riots to take place but the next few days could be very unpleasant if there is no action taken whilst the death toll rises. Temperatures are set to reach 30 Celcius by the end of the weekend which won't help matters either.

Edited June 15, 2017 by GeeJay

[invergowrie arab]

 

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

The Times is reporting the the cladding used is banned in the US for high rise buildings and in Germany is classed as flammable. For f*ck's sake. 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by Carl Cort's Hamstring

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

2 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

 

If it's partially flammable, it's flammable.

It's only part of a bigger issue here however.

 

 

[williemillersmoustache]

^was just about to post that.

So what's the cost of a human life if it's 150 dead and a total saving of 5k? 

Folk cost £33.33 each.

Edited June 15, 2017 by williemillersmoustache

[dorlomin]

1 hour ago, peasy23 said:

Asked about the number of dead, Cdr Cundysaid: "I hope it is not triple figures, but I can't be drawn on the numbers."

Oh jesus god. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Just now, dorlomin said:

Oh jesus god. 

It's almost inconceivable that the final total can be less than 3 figures, when you factor together the time it started, how quickly it spread, the sheer extent of the damage, the number of people likely to be in the block and the safety instructions to stay put in the event of a fire. This has the catastrophic feel of the likes of the Zeebrugge ferry disaster in terms of numbers, harrowing stories etc. Fucking hell. 

[Cerberus]

Theresa May is having another nightmare.
She's standing chatting to firefighters not giving a single f**k while Corbyn is out meeting residents.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

Theresa May is having another nightmare.
She's standing chatting to firefighters not giving a single f**k while Corbyn is out meeting residents.

 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

There's a bint on QT stating 'we haven't seen a death toll like this since the blitz'

When were the numbers officially issued?

[ThomCat]

May must be relieved the election was last week. 

[dorlomin]

 

 

Dont buy it 100% but its a usually credible person. 

[Sloop John B]

You wonder how many other buildings have that cladding currently, not just apartment blocks but all sorts of public buildings that have been done on the cheap. Hopefully some action against those responsible happens but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Probably a prime opportunity to dump the survivors in some dreary satellite town out of the way.

it serves as a sad reminder to various Neoliberal types who think that we don't need the state interfering by creating rules for businesses. Regulations should be there to prevent greedy developers from cutting corners and it really shouldn't have to take scores of people getting charred in their flats for people to realise this. 

 

10 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

Theresa May is having another nightmare.
She's standing chatting to firefighters not giving a single f**k while Corbyn is out meeting residents.

 

Good opportunity to congratulate them on doing more with less.

[dorlomin]

1 minute ago, Sloop John B said:

You wonder how many other buildings have that cladding currently, not just apartment blocks but all sorts of public buildings that have been done on the cheap.

That question has appeared on twitter by mates of mine who live in high rises that have had recent refurbs. 

 

I will not be surprised if there is a riot in this city in the next few months. 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

14 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

 

 

Next Tuesday. Did she turn up in a caravan?

 

She never saw Dimbleby correcting her coming, so no.