The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[ayrunitedfw]

4 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

Stefan Scougall has been released.

I know we were in for him in the last windows under a different manager but might be a decent option if Kelly didn’t come back.

Carlisle releasing a shit load. Ex Morton player Jack Iredale also released. 

[D'Jaffo]

Carlisle releasing a shit load. Ex Morton player Jack Iredale also released. 

He’s a LB isn’t he?

Worth looking at if Harvie leaves perhaps.

[rb123!]

Seems to be a suggestion that the summer transfer window opening is going to be delayed which means all the decent players in Scotland are going to be nabbed by lower league English sides meaning when the window opens the Scottish Clubs will have the leftover dross.

[rb123!]

Also strange how a day after the English league two was called as finished clubs like Carlisle have a released list.

Yet up here our league was concluded a couple of weeks ago and as far as I'm aware no Scottish clubs have released players.

Presume it could be to do with the furlough and also the constant rumbles about reconstruction. There needs to be a cut off date for reconstruction where if nothing is can be agreed it won't be happening next season, 1st June would be a good cut off.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, rb123! said:

Seems to be a suggestion that the summer transfer window opening is going to be delayed which means all the decent players in Scotland are going to be nabbed by lower league English sides meaning when the window opens the Scottish Clubs will have the leftover dross.

No scottish club with an ounce of sense is going to sign a player before there is some indication of being allowed to play with crowds anyway. It would be foolishness of the highest order. They can open the transfer window tonight if they like for all the odds it makes.

[D'Jaffo]

No scottish club with an ounce of sense is going to sign a player before there is some indication of being allowed to play with crowds anyway. It would be foolishness of the highest order. They can open the transfer window tonight if they like for all the odds it makes.

I also don’t see many English lower league clubs signing anyone either. They’ve not even decided what’s happening this season let alone spoke about next season.

[Richey Edwards]

On 15/05/2020 at 19:22, Trogdor said:

That's an understatement. Absolutely brutal viewing.

ETA - Until the penalties

Yeah that was one of the worst games I've ever seen. Though I thought Stranraer played better than we did overall.

The penalties though.

Greg Fleming wasn't the best keeper we've ever had, but he was brilliant at saving penalties.

On 15/05/2020 at 21:12, WATTOO said:

I used to get annoyed with people staring at their phones instead of the match, however I must confess that I spent the entire 2nd half watching the virtual feed on bet365 of the Raith game and only occasionally glanced up at our own match, in fairness I don't think I was alone !!!

Yeah I was the exact same. I didn't actually think we were going to do it until I saw that the Raith game was still 0-0 with five minutes left - though I was fully expecting a suckerpunch!

It's a shame that when so many latent fans actually come along to a game it's usually a poor spectacle - the Stranraer game and the Killie Cup Semi are prime examples of that.

[Skyline Drifter]

31 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

I also don’t see many English lower league clubs signing anyone either. They’ve not even decided what’s happening this season let alone spoke about next season.

Agreed, I think thats also likely the case. Given wages down south will likely exceed furlough levels and contracts tend to be longer the lower League English sides are in more trouble than most of us.

[diegomarahenry]

10 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Championship games on BBC the home club are given a few minutes of electronic pitchside board time to sell for themselves. Thats it. Its supposedly worth about £3k but in practice its mot really worth half that. There is no compensation payment and absolutely no payment at all for live Premiership games on Sky or BT.

And hospitality is regularly cancelled when games are moved to Sundays for live broadcast and sometimes for Friday night games as people cant have the day on the drink they planned. We lost one third of our booked hospitality when our game was brought forward to the Friday in March. It is worse if it moves to sunday. Friday night cuts their day out by time, sunday stops it altogether as they have work the next day. 

There is a reason why all the clubs want to avoid the live tv league games. The notion that less tv games would disappoint them is just 100% wrong.

I still don't understand what your point is about what I said.

I was saying that more teams would mean less TV games for clubs, 16/18 rather than 12 would mean middle ranking teams would feature less, This would be the only revenue loss for many teams assuming that the prize money threshold moved and teams winning the second tear would effectively be given the current prize money for finishing 3rd or 5th. 

As far as I could see, the only loss in that case would be associated with those live TV games. So if they have less, it is not interfering with hospitality. The only loss to hospitality would be potentially less home games which you would know up front.

 

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, diegomarahenry said:

I still don't understand what your point is about what I said.

I was saying that more teams would mean less TV games for clubs, 16/18 rather than 12 would mean middle ranking teams would feature less, This would be the only revenue loss for many teams assuming that the prize money threshold moved and teams winning the second tear would effectively be given the current prize money for finishing 3rd or 5th. 

As far as I could see, the only loss in that case would be associated with those live TV games. So if they have less, it is not interfering with hospitality. The only loss to hospitality would be potentially less home games which you would know up front.

 

And you were saying less tv games was a disadvantage to clubs. It isnt. Its an advantage. Every single club wants as few home games televised as possible. They want the tv money in the League pot, they dont want to be actually on it any more often than they have to be though.

Less tv games is NOT a revenue loss.

[HMIP]

14 hours ago, D'Jaffo said:

Stefan Scougall has been released.

I know we were in for him in the last windows under a different manager but might be a decent option if Kelly didn’t come back.

Pretty shocking that players are being released at all.  The furlough scheme means out of contract players can be re-signed on short term contracts albeit on a reduced percentage of their wage.  Clearly the clubs don’t have to make up the difference if they can’t or don’t want to, but it gives players an income of some sort.  Players being freed are joining the dole queue.

[Skyline Drifter]

Just now, HMIP said:

Pretty shocking that players are being released at all.  The furlough scheme means out of contract players can be re-signed on short term contracts albeit on a reduced percentage of their wage.  Clearly the clubs don’t have to make up the difference if they can’t or don’t want to, but it gives players an income of some sort.  Players being freed are joining the dole queue.

Just because its been announced he will be leaving doesnt mean they wont do that. He will already be contracted to 30th June as a minimum.

[diegomarahenry]

6 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

And you were saying less tv games was a disadvantage to clubs. It isnt. Its an advantage. Every single club wants as few home games televised as possible. They want the tv money in the League pot, they dont want to be actually on it any more often than they have to be though.

Less tv games is NOT a revenue loss.

I said less games against the old firm and televised games. You have got hung up on one part of that and went on about cancelled hospitality. 

If keeping the top flight small has no has no financial advantage to clubs we would have a top 14-16-18.

I am not going to look for the Cameron quote because I don't care enough

[HMIP]

33 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Just because its been announced he will be leaving doesnt mean they wont do that. He will already be contracted to 30th June as a minimum.

If you are released, that means you are no longer under contract at the club.  You may have the balance of your contract paid up, but you are no longer employed by the club and therefore not eligible for the furlough scheme.

Don’t know about England, but players in Scotland will generally see their contracts expire at the end of May.  Jim Duffy previously made the point that the entire Dumbarton first team is out of contract on 1st June.  Fraser Wishart was on sportsound yesterday discussing this very point and expressing surprise that clubs are starting to release players rather than provide some kind of short term income through the furlough scheme.  Of all people, Amy MacDonald (married to Richard Foster) contacted them to re-enforce the point that players are being freed when there is an option to give them some sort of reduced income over the next 2 or 3 months with no cost to the clubs assuming they choose not to top up the wages over and above the furlough scheme.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, HMIP said:

If you are released, that means you are no longer under contract at the club.  You may have the balance of your contract paid up, but you are no longer employed by the club and therefore not eligible for the furlough scheme.

Don’t know about England, but players in Scotland will generally see their contracts expire at the end of May.

Er, no it doesnt. It means they are confirming now that he wont get a contract extension. I do know about England, and Carlisle United in particular. All contracts run to 30th June in England, which us why there was all the shenanigans about trying to get the season finished by end of June as it saves any faffing about extending contracts.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[Skyline Drifter]

59 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

I said less games against the old firm and televised games. You have got hung up on one part of that and went on about cancelled hospitality. 

If keeping the top flight small has no has no financial advantage to clubs we would have a top 14-16-18.

I am not going to look for the Cameron quote because I don't care enough

You can hang on a Cameron quote all you like, its still not correct. There are no additional compensation payments for live League games.

You were claiming less televised games per club meant less income for clubs. It doesnt. I didnt get 'hung up' on it, I clarified that wasnt the case. 

I mentioned cancelled hospitality to further emphasise that tv games (in the league) are financially counter productive for clubs. Any additional advertising likely wont cover the loss of hospitality profits. 

[diegomarahenry]

16 minutes ago, HMIP said:

If you are released, that means you are no longer under contract at the club.  You may have the balance of your contract paid up, but you are no longer employed by the club and therefore not eligible for the furlough scheme.

Don’t know about England, but players in Scotland will generally see their contracts expire at the end of May.  Jim Duffy previously made the point that the entire Dumbarton first team is out of contract on 1st June.  Fraser Wishart was on sportsound yesterday discussing this very point and expressing surprise that clubs are starting to release players rather than provide some kind of short term income through the furlough scheme.  Of all people, Amy MacDonald (married to Richard Foster) contacted them to re-enforce the point that players are being freed when there is an option to give them some sort of reduced income over the next 2 or 3 months with no cost to the clubs assuming they choose not to top up the wages over and above the furlough scheme.

Clubs will still be liable for the 20% and in the case of any players earning over the cap amount, they will only have the £2500 a month paid by the furlough scheme. I would expect Richard Foster to be paid more than £1k a week so a club with reduced revenue stream would have to either pick the shortfall, come to an agreement with a player not to pay them their wage (and possibly being in breach of contract)  or free them at the first opportunity. 

A club like Ayr, I would imagine that not many players (if any) would be over the threshold and we could continue to employ them on at least 80% pay with the expectation that they would be let go if the scheme ended. 

[diegomarahenry]

2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

You can hang on a Cameron quote all you like, its still not correct. There are no additional compensation payments for live League games.

You were claiming less televised games per club meant less income for clubs. It doesnt. I didnt get 'hung up' on it, I clarified that wasnt the case. 

I mentioned cancelled hospitality to further emphasise that tv games (in the league) are financially counter productive for clubs. Any additional advertising likely wont cover the loss of hospitality profits. 

Is there nothing better for you to do than getting angry on other clubs threads on a Sunday morning? 

 

[HMIP]

10 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Er, no it doesnt. It means they are confirming now that he wont get a contract extension. I do know about England, and Carlosle United in particular. All contracts run to 30th June in England, which us why there was all the shenanigans about trying to get the season finished by end of June as it saves any faffing about extending contracts.

I have to say, for all the weirdos and trolls that patrol the pages of pie and bovril, you are easily the most tedious and tiresome poster around.  A smart arse know it all who only ever seems to indulge in circuitous arguments which never actually engage with the point people are making, in this case, the obvious and growing concern about players being released when they have no hope of finding another club for many months when they could potentially be retained by existing clubs for a short time albeit only on a percentage of their existing wage.

[HMIP]

12 minutes ago, diegomarahenry said:

Clubs will still be liable for the 20% and in the case of any players earning over the cap amount, they will only have the £2500 a month paid by the furlough scheme. I would expect Richard Foster to be paid more than £1k a week so a club with reduced revenue stream would have to either pick the shortfall, come to an agreement with a player not to pay them their wage (and possibly being in breach of contract)  or free them at the first opportunity. 

A club like Ayr, I would imagine that not many players (if any) would be over the threshold and we could continue to employ them on at least 80% pay with the expectation that they would be let go if the scheme ended. 

My understanding from listening to Wishart is that clubs aren’t obliged to top up wages over and above the state contribution - I’m sure I saw something from our club stating they would top up wages until the end of May, but what happened thereafter was unknown.  I guess it’s up to the player if they’d prefer to be released, but my guess is most out of contract players at our level would be willing to stay in the furlough scheme as they have next to no chance of contract offers elsewhere.  
Agree though that if clubs believe they might have any liability at all to top up wages, then they will definitely just release players at the end of their contracts.