Forfar Athletic News 2018 onwards

[The Moonster]

19 hours ago, ScottishLoon said:

If there's no club statement this week then the more and more it feels like the board are trying to force ray to be our Stewart Petrie and build like Montrose did.

It's probably a good idea to go that way but if we don't execute it with the right manager then it ends up looking a bit of a car crash like it is now.

It's not just the manager, you need the wads of cash Montrose have been throwing around too. A lot of people and clubs (ours included) seem to think that just sticking with a manger will work because Arbroath and Montrose have done it, neatly forgetting that they have been two of the most well backed part time sides in the county recently. 

 

[Port Talbot Loons]

On 10/12/2023 at 10:57, BridiesHereBridiesThere said:

Found this stat out for myself a couple days ago and have now updated it after yesterday’s result.

 

Surely the board should be clocking on to these sort of things. 

Tomorrow's the day then. 

[theSilverFox]

2 hours ago, ForfarLoon84 said:

That's it though, unfortunately I don't think we have the right manager.

I don't want to be a club who sacks managers every season and certainly don't want to see anyone out of a job, but this just isn't working sadly.

He is just far too negative and doesn't look like he is going to change that despite results not picking up, and that stuborness ultimately looks like it will cost him his job.

I honestly believe an attacking, pressing team would do very well in this league, you just need to have the balls and the players to do it.

He is displaying the same stubbornness or lack of ideas to change that Irvine showed. 
If he had any respect for the club, the fans or himself he would have stepped down, admitting defeat takes a bigger person than hanging on hoping to be sacked and his contract paid out.

[fafc1885]

1 hour ago, theSilverFox said:

He is displaying the same stubbornness or lack of ideas to change that Irvine showed. 

I’m just glad McKinnon can’t sub himself and Fallon on.

[ForfarLoon84]

31 minutes ago, fafc1885 said:

I’m just glad McKinnon can’t sub himself and Fallon on.

That made me laugh 

Touching on Fallon, do you think he has much say or input into what goes on?

[Neilly]

5 hours ago, theSilverFox said:

He is displaying the same stubbornness or lack of ideas to change that Irvine showed. 
If he had any respect for the club, the fans or himself he would have stepped down, admitting defeat takes a bigger person than hanging on hoping to be sacked and his contract paid out.

Why would he step down?

Would you step down from your contracted job, for no compensation, and put yourself on the job scrapheap with no chance of then operating at a similar level anytime soon?

It's the usual nonsense from football fans who don't live in the real world. 

[BridiesHereBridiesThere]

14 minutes ago, Neilly said:

Why would he step down?

Would you step down from your contracted job, for no compensation, and put yourself on the job scrapheap with no chance of then operating at a similar level anytime soon?

It's the usual nonsense from football fans who don't live in the real world. 

Football manager is completely different mate

 

Clubs not doing well and there’s no room to fix it, one of the worst positions they’ve been in their history and the supporters despise you. Surely you’d have some sort of respect to resign.

 

It’s football not a bloody job stacking shelves at Asda

[Bridie Vision]

49 minutes ago, Neilly said:

Why would he step down?

Would you step down from your contracted job, for no compensation, and put yourself on the job scrapheap with no chance of then operating at a similar level anytime soon?

It's the usual nonsense from football fans who don't live in the real world. 

While I wouldn't mind if he resigned but I agree with @Neilly why would he voluntarily walk away from a job? I'm no contract expert but I'd assume if you voluntarily resign your compensation packet isn't as nice as you'd get if the board terminate your contract. 

Malky, Sellers & Foxy resigned because despite their tenure damaging their reputation at the club, they had love and respect for Forfar as fan favourites. McKinnon doesn't hold such sympathies for clubs (as history shows).

[nofixedability]

Yeah , this is on the Board , anyone expecting McKinnon to resign is in cloud cuckoo land. And the Board do not want to sack the man.

[Neilly]

1 hour ago, BridiesHereBridiesThere said:

Football manager is completely different mate

 

Clubs not doing well and there’s no room to fix it, one of the worst positions they’ve been in their history and the supporters despise you. Surely you’d have some sort of respect to resign.

 

It’s football not a bloody job stacking shelves at Asda

You just don't get it. 

Ray McKinnon owes Forfar absolutely nothing and won't be losing sleep at night because a handful of farmers dislike him. He's not a supporter like you I think you need to remove yourself from that mindset and understand the bigger picture a bit more.

This is all on the Forfar board not Uncle Ray.

[BridiesHereBridiesThere]

45 minutes ago, Neilly said:

You just don't get it. 

Ray McKinnon owes Forfar absolutely nothing and won't be losing sleep at night because a handful of farmers dislike him. He's not a supporter like you I think you need to remove yourself from that mindset and understand the bigger picture a bit more.

This is all on the Forfar board not Uncle Ray.

Yes I know he is not a supporter. But I expect him to have a lot of respect towards the club which he clearly doesn’t. 
 

I agree with you the board are a massive part of it. But Ray must surely know the club can’t afford to sack him

[The Moonster]

10 hours ago, BridiesHereBridiesThere said:

Football manager is completely different mate

 

Clubs not doing well and there’s no room to fix it, one of the worst positions they’ve been in their history and the supporters despise you. Surely you’d have some sort of respect to resign.

 

It’s football not a bloody job stacking shelves at Asda

A football manager and a shelf stacker at Asda have the same employment rights whether you think that or not. Folk expecting managers to walk away from contracted payment "fur the luv eh the club" are idiots. 

If Asda or Walmart were struggling would you tell their workers they just need to accept redundancy with no payment because the shop is struggling? Would you f**k. Forfar are Asda to Ray and he rightly doesn't care if you're too skint to bag him.

[RateofKnots]

The 3 year "rolling" contract looks daft now. Though it does suggest they would only have to pay up 6 months of the deal, if it was done correctly. 

So probably not.

[The Moonster]

16 minutes ago, RateofKnots said:

The 3 year "rolling" contract looks daft now. Though it does suggest they would only have to pay up 6 months of the deal, if it was done correctly. 

So probably not.

Can you explain how a rolling contract works and how that means he would be entitled to 6 months of pay on being sacked?

[BallochSonsFan]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

Can you explain how a rolling contract works and how that means he would be entitled to 6 months of pay on being sacked?

 

A rolling contract is exactly that. Rolling.

If it's a 1 year rolling contract then today my contract runs from 12/12/23 to 11/12/24. Tomorrow my contract runs from 13/12/23 to 12/12/24. I don't actually sign a new contract - my terms and conditions roll over each day for a new fixed period. If Mackinnon has a 3 year rolling contract then it's 3 years from today. And then 3 years from tomorrow. And then from Thursday. And so on.

If I have a contract that's valid for 1 year then legally I'm entitled to expect it to be honoured. Unless I'm being dismissed for gross misconduct, if my employer wants to dismiss me then they need to pay me according to the terms of my contract of employment. To avoid being on the hook for a contractual termination payment of 1 year, or however long the rolling period is, the contract should have a termination clause in it that restricts compensation to a shorter period. In the same way that your contract of employment will have a notice and termination period clause that states how much notice your company has to give you and what arrangements will be made for either working that period or being paid in lieu.

[The Moonster]

5 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

 

A rolling contract is exactly that. Rolling.

If it's a 1 year rolling contract then today my contract runs from 12/12/23 to 11/12/24. Tomorrow my contract runs from 13/12/23 to 12/12/24. I don't actually sign a new contract - my terms and conditions roll over each day for a new fixed period. If Mackinnon has a 3 year rolling contract then it's 3 years from today. And then 3 years from tomorrow. And then from Thursday. And so on.

If I have a contract that's valid for 1 year then legally I'm entitled to expect it to be honoured. Unless I'm being dismissed for gross misconduct, if my employer wants to dismiss me then they need to pay me according to the terms of my contract of employment. To avoid being on the hook for a contractual termination payment of 1 year, or however long the rolling period is, the contract should have a termination clause in it that restricts compensation to a shorter period. In the same way that your contract of employment will have a notice and termination period clause that states how much notice your company has to give you and what arrangements will be made for either working that period or being paid in lieu.

I understand that, I just couldn't get where the "only have to pay him 6 months" came from in relation to a rolling contract. In all likelihood Ray will be entitled to 3 months pay when he's sacked unless Forfar are operating a massively different way to any other club.

[RateofKnots]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

I understand that, I just couldn't get where the "only have to pay him 6 months" came from in relation to a rolling contract. In all likelihood Ray will be entitled to 3 months pay when he's sacked unless Forfar are operating a massively different way to any other club.

My understanding was that they would pay up the year/season.

If I'm wrong, I'm willing to hold my hands up. 

[Burnsythebinman]

Mackinnon will beleive he can turn it around so wont walk away. they all beleive that or wouldnt be in the job. i dont know the forfar budget but is that the problem? maybe his hands are tied and has no money to spend. he always seemed a decent manager for this level and a good appointment on paper

[RateofKnots]

8 minutes ago, Burnsythebinman said:

Mackinnon will beleive he can turn it around so wont walk away. they all beleive that or wouldnt be in the job. i dont know the forfar budget but is that the problem? maybe his hands are tied and has no money to spend. he always seemed a decent manager for this level and a good appointment on paper

There was money. Its been spent on dross.

[Burnsythebinman]

16 minutes ago, RateofKnots said:

There was money. Its been spent on dross.

fair play then, if the budgets up there and he's won only 2 games then he has to go