If Scotland were...

[The OP]

10 minutes ago, nsr said:

So you're saying that a Yes vote followed by changing our name to Caledonia would have sorted it out?

Potentially, but it would be better if we encourage Russia to take over mainland Europe, giving us 16 UEFA places in 2026 and only about 10 teams. Even Scotland couldn’t f**k that up.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

After Brexit we can start just refusing entry visas to all the best players. And if we turn Hampden into a literal fortress so that even the shiters we do let in to the country have to dodge torrents of boiling oil on their way into the stadium then I feel we'd be going a long way to securing the 3 points in at least half our games. 

[Peppino Impastato]

9 hours ago, Dindeleux said:

 

I think the attitude of it being down to luck is part of the problem. In the group for Euro 2016 we did very well for large parts of some of the big games. Poor game management when we threw away points cost us. Ireland produced when it mattered.



I know you love to troll but I think saying 50 players is just stupid. You would be down to players like, forgive me for saying this Hibees and my fellow Killie fans, Lewis Stevenson and Eammonn Brophy in that case.

 

Although he's about Scotland's twelfth choice Lewis Stevenson would get in the Iceland squad.  Fifty is conservative, they have players in their squad who aren't even full time professional footballers, Scotland have maybe 200 full time players maybe more.

[nsr]

1 minute ago, Peppino Impastato said:

 they have players in their squad who aren't even full time professional footballers

Really? Whom?

[Peppino Impastato]

3 hours ago, Cerberus said:

I have no doubt we have decent talent coming through but it all falls apart because we have uber diddies like Andy Kirk and Paul Sheering coaching them.
What have those 2 learned in their career to pass along to anyone, never mind teenage footballers who are potentially better than them?

We need a generation of players who have never played in Scotland.
Ideally not even Scottish. Find 11 guys with English great-grannies.

Aye cause England are brilliant eh.  You're a bellend.

[Peppino Impastato]

2 minutes ago, nsr said:

Really? Whom?

Two of them had to take time off work to go to the world cup.  Scotland do not cap players who aren't even full time professional players.  We have two entire leagues of full time teams let alone one squad.  

Iceland are a well managed team having a purple patch as they've hit on a way of playing that works for a wee while.  Very much like n Ireland recently.  But those that think Scotland don't have literally dozens of players who would stroll into their squad doesn't know what they're talking about.  I stand by at least fifty probably more.

[nsr]

Just now, Peppino Impastato said:

Two of them had to take time off work to go to the world cup. 

Names?

[forameus]

14 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Two of them had to take time off work to go to the world cup

 

13 minutes ago, nsr said:

Names?

Yeah, I'd be really interested to hear those names too.  Because it seems like absolute bullshit.

[Honest_Man#1]

@GordonS

Not going to quote the post because of length, but completely agree with the point you make about Scottish youngsters being pushed into a rigid position from an early age, and it being the worst way to go about it. In other countries the keepers are sometimes as good on the ball as the outfield players, and defenders are definitely as comfortable as attackers. In Scotland I’ve seen (and experienced) being told to stay rigidly to one position which really doesn’t help in developing a rounded technical ability.

[Wile E Coyote]

2 minutes ago, forameus said:

 

Yeah, I'd be really interested to hear those names too.  Because it seems like absolute bullshit.

That's because it is.

There is an easy way to prove who is better between Scotland and Iceland- Watch BBC 4 tonight and see who is playing

[topcat(The most tip top)]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

 

Yeah, I'd be really interested to hear those names too.  Because it seems like absolute bullshit.

There are two players approaching retirement who have gone back home to Iceland and are playing in the Icelandic league

Birkir Már Saevarsson is 33 and after 10 years of full time football in Sweden and Denmark has moved back to Valur Reykjavík for the 2018 season he's working part time as a Salt Packer

Kári Árnason  is 35 and has gone back to  Víkingur Reykjavík after 14 years away. I've not found any reference to a day job but it wouldn't be surprising. Víkingur play in front of crowds of about a thousand so if that's his only income he's probably burning through savings

So the statement "They have players in their squad who aren't even full time professional footballers" is probably true technically but could be misleading.

These are still experienced professional footballers as opposed to the hobbyists that turn out for San Marino.

And they were certainly full time professionals while Iceland were qualifying and Scotland weren't, which is probably more relevant to this discussion

Also the coach is a part time dentist

[Paco]

2 hours ago, The OP said:

The downfall of Communism and the breakup of Yugoslavia has certainly increased the number of teams with names ending in -ia who we will drop points to.

We often joke about that, but it is an issue. Scotland qualified for the 1986 World Cup, one of 14 European nations in a 24 team format. Europe had 13.5 spots for the tournament, with 13 qualifiers and one side advancing to a play-off with Australia.  As it turned out, that team was Scotland. 

33 countries entered the European qualification. 14 ultimately qualified, giving a qualification rate of 42%. You were almost as likely to qualify as not for the 1986 World Cup if you were European. 

54 countries made up the World Cup qualifiers in 2018 in Europe. Europe has 13 qualifiers at the tournament, one less than 1986. This gives a 24% qualification rate. It's basic maths but it's clear from the outset that it's more difficult to qualify now as a European country. 

Yugoslavia, the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia were three countries in 1986, in 2018 qualifying we had Belarus, Latvia, Montenegro, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Azerbaijan, Serbia, Georgia, Moldova, Macedonia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Ukraine and Kosovo sprouting out of those three alone. A quick look at the list sees at least five countries who are now significantly better than us, so even if we stood entirely still as a footballing nation, given we scraped into the 1986 tournament we'd be struggling even more now. 

Obviously, there are other issues, I'd never deny that for a second. But only a fool could argue it isn't much more difficult to qualify now for Scotland than it was 'when we were good'. 

TL;DR - we're pish, Willie Miller says so.

[Dunning1874]

On 25/06/2018 at 12:00, DA Baracus said:

They moved to an exponentially harder qualifying section and still qualify.

Australia moved from a qualification section with 0.5 qualifying places - having to play off against a South American side - to a section with 4.5 places. 2006 was their first World Cup in 32 years; they joined AFC for  2010 qualification and have made every tournament since.

Rather than having to win playoffs against New Zealand and Peru to reach this tournament, they qualified by finishing third behind Japan & Saudi Arabia (ahead of UAE, Iraq and Thailand) then beating Syria and Honduras in playoffs. Had they taken one of the top two places in their group, they'd have had no need for a playoff.

This has bugger all to do with how they'd perform in relation to Scotland of course, but they've not got it harder by any stretch of the imagination.

The entire reason Australia moved was to make qualification easier for themselves.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

1 hour ago, Paco said:

We often joke about that, but it is an issue. Scotland qualified for the 1986 World Cup, one of 14 European nations in a 24 team format. Europe had 13.5 spots for the tournament, with 13 qualifiers and one side advancing to a play-off with Australia.  As it turned out, that team was Scotland. 

33 countries entered the European qualification. 14 ultimately qualified, giving a qualification rate of 42%. You were almost as likely to qualify as not for the 1986 World Cup if you were European. 

54 countries made up the World Cup qualifiers in 2018 in Europe. Europe has 13 qualifiers at the tournament, one less than 1986. This gives a 24% qualification rate. It's basic maths but it's clear from the outset that it's more difficult to qualify now as a European country. 

Yugoslavia, the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia were three countries in 1986, in 2018 qualifying we had Belarus, Latvia, Montenegro, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Azerbaijan, Serbia, Georgia, Moldova, Macedonia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Ukraine and Kosovo sprouting out of those three alone. A quick look at the list sees at least five countries who are now significantly better than us, so even if we stood entirely still as a footballing nation, given we scraped into the 1986 tournament we'd be struggling even more now. 

Obviously, there are other issues, I'd never deny that for a second. But only a fool could argue it isn't much more difficult to qualify now for Scotland than it was 'when we were good'. 

TL;DR - we're pish, Willie Miller says so.

 

"five countries who are now significantly better than us" seems  a high estimate especially as Slovakia only edged 2nd place on goal difference

In fact you could argue that things were easier because we only had to play half of Czechoslovakia

Serbia (Group D Pos 1): Pts 21, GD +10, Group D, Pos 1
Croatia (Group I Pos 2): Pts 20, GD +11, Group I, Pos 2 (Beat Greece in Playoff)
Slovakia (Group F Pos 2): Pts 18, GD +10, Group F, Pos 2 
Scotland(Group F Pos 3): Pts 18, GD +5, Group F, Pos 3
Bosnia & Herzegovina (Group H Pos 3): Pts 17, GD +11, Group H, Pos 3
Ukraine (Group I Pos 3): Pts 17, GD +4, Group I, Pos 3
Montenegro (Group E Pos 3): Pts 16, GD +8, Group E, Pos 3
Czech Republic (Group C Pos 3): Pts 15, GD +7, Group C, Pos 3
Slovenia (Group F Pos 4): Pts 15, GD +5, Group F, Pos 4
Macedonia (Group G Pos 5): Pts 11, GD +0, Group G, Pos 5
Azerbaijan (Group C Pos 5): Pts 10, GD -9, Group C, Pos 5
Latvia (Group B Pos 5): Pts 7, GD -11, Group B, Pos 5
Armenia (Group E Pos 5): Pts 7, GD -16, Group E, Pos 5
Lithuania (Group F Pos 5): Pts 6, GD -13, Group F, Pos 5
Georgia (Group D Pos 5): Pts 5, GD -6, Group D, Pos 5
Belarus (Group A Pos 6): Pts 5, GD -15, Group A, Pos 6
Kazakhstan (Group E Pos 6): Pts 3, GD -20, Group E, Pos 6
Moldova (Group D Pos 6): Pts 2, GD -19, Group D, Pos 6
Kosovo (Group 1 Pos 6): Pts 1, GD -21, Group 1, Pos 6

 

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Paco said:

We often joke about that, but it is an issue. Scotland qualified for the 1986 World Cup, one of 14 European nations in a 24 team format. Europe had 13.5 spots for the tournament, with 13 qualifiers and one side advancing to a play-off with Australia.  As it turned out, that team was Scotland. 

33 countries entered the European qualification. 14 ultimately qualified, giving a qualification rate of 42%. You were almost as likely to qualify as not for the 1986 World Cup if you were European. 

54 countries made up the World Cup qualifiers in 2018 in Europe. Europe has 13 qualifiers at the tournament, one less than 1986. This gives a 24% qualification rate. It's basic maths but it's clear from the outset that it's more difficult to qualify now as a European country. 

Yugoslavia, the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia were three countries in 1986, in 2018 qualifying we had Belarus, Latvia, Montenegro, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Azerbaijan, Serbia, Georgia, Moldova, Macedonia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Ukraine and Kosovo sprouting out of those three alone. A quick look at the list sees at least five countries who are now significantly better than us, so even if we stood entirely still as a footballing nation, given we scraped into the 1986 tournament we'd be struggling even more now. 

Obviously, there are other issues, I'd never deny that for a second. But only a fool could argue it isn't much more difficult to qualify now for Scotland than it was 'when we were good'. 

TL;DR - we're pish, Willie Miller says so.

I'm not sure it shoudn't work the other way - with those countries breaking up, shouldn't their teams be easier to beat?

Imagine how good a Yugoslavia side would be at this World Cup. They'd even have Xhaka and Shaqiri. 

[Paco]

 

"five countries who are now significantly better than us" seems  a high estimate especially as Slovakia only edged 2nd place on goal difference

 

 

Slovakia qualified for WC2010 (last 16) and Euro 2016 (last 16) so perhaps ‘significantly’ better is slightly out but there’s no question they’re better than we are.

 

I'm not sure it shoudn't work the other way - with those countries breaking up, shouldn't their teams be easier to beat?

Imagine how good a Yugoslavia side would be at this World Cup. They'd even have Xhaka and Shaqiri. 

 

In theory, yes, especially when the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia weren’t exactly footballing powerhouses. But to maintain that attitude would be extraordinarily ignorant of the circumstances of the majority of the Soviet/Yugoslav countries until independence (and in a few cases, even now). There are more important things than football.

 

A modern Yugoslav XI would probably be a contender for the trophy, no doubt. Provided they didn’t all kill each other at least.

[Peppino Impastato]

Oh not a cheep from you lot now it's been proven you were wrong.  But you were very quick to call shite. I'll accept your apologies.  Btw, do you think we'll see any part time players get a game for Scotland any time soon?

 

[berwick-the-unbeatable]

[emoji38]

[topcat(The most tip top)]

27 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Oh not a cheep from you lot now it's been proven you were wrong.  But you were very quick to call shite. I'll accept your apologies.  Btw, do you think we'll see any part time players get a game for Scotland any time soon?

The closest equivalent would be if Darren Fletcher were to delay his retirement from the club game until the end of 2019-20 to go and play for Scotland in the Euro Finals at the age of 36.

In that scenario he wouldn't even be a part-time professional footballer, he'd be a former professional footballer,

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Peppino Impastato]

8 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The closest equivalent would be if Darren Fletcher were to delay his retirement from the club game until the end of 2019-20 to go and play for Scotland in the Euro Finals at the age of 36.

In that scenario he wouldn't even be a part-time professional footballer, he'd be a former professional footballer,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aye he'd probably be working in a fish factory or something eh.  God forbid he eat into his savings.