What is the point of Labour ?

[MarkoRaj]

It's hard not to feel apathetic when no party of any colour in any part of the UK is offering change whatsoever.

Labour under Starmer are just the living embodiment of this tweet

[ScotiaNostra]

If I thought the SNP could gain independence Id consider voting for them again, at moment I dont think they will any time soon.

To vote based on who would make things better quicker I'll be honest I am considering Labour in both UK and Scottish elections. No matter how bland Starmer is its going to be better than the tories and a change in Scottish Government might give the SNP the boot up the arse it needs and they come back a better party.

The Scotland United idea is the only thing that sounds interesting on the indy side of things and something that could bring real change but it seems dead in the water

[KirkieRR]

12 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

If I thought the SNP could gain independence Id consider voting for them again, at moment I dont think they will any time soon.

To vote based on who would make things better quicker I'll be honest I am considering Labour in both UK and Scottish elections. No matter how bland Starmer is its going to be better than the tories and a change in Scottish Government might give the SNP the boot up the arse it needs and they come back a better party.

The Scotland United idea is the only thing that sounds interesting on the indy side of things and something that could bring real change but it seems dead in the water

I share your concerns but not your solution. A Labour revival in Scotland would de interpreted by them as a return to the prior status quo

The SNP are poor, ALBA are bonkers, but independence is the only way.

[ScotiaNostra]

2 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

I share your concerns but not your solution. A Labour revival in Scotland would de interpreted by them as a return to the prior status quo

The SNP are poor, ALBA are bonkers, but independence is the only way.

I agree independence is the best way but I also want things better quickly

[StellarHibee]

33 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

I agree independence is the best way but I also want things better quickly

Make things better quickly by voting in the party promising more of the same?

Also, not voting SNP because these other parties worked together to pervert the court system is a huge LOL.

Edited July 24, 2023 by StellarHibee

[MazzyStar]

21 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

England and Wales need a credible left-of-centre alternative to Labour.  I don’t see them getting it any time soon but equally there will be a point where the trade union movement decides that there is no further justification in funding a Tory Lite alternative.

 

What about Scotland? 

[dirty dingus]

I'm still hopeful someone will stand up in the SNP and say f**k this for a game of soldiers, get the gloves off and start pushing for Independence by calling all them comfy MPs home from Westminster like Sinn Fein or basically disrupting parliament as a collective every time an untruth gets uttered . Also have a strategy to call out the media over every lie. Keith Brown was meant to do it but seemed to run out of steam after about 2 tweets. 

[ScotiaNostra]

13 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

Make things better quickly by voting in the party promising more of the same?

Also, not voting SNP because these other parties worked together to pervert the court system is a huge LOL.

Its my opinion that it wont be more of the same if Labour get in, it will get better for the avg person, thats why I am considering it

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, ScotiaNostra said:

If I thought the SNP could gain independence Id consider voting for them again, at moment I dont think they will any time soon.

To vote based on who would make things better quicker I'll be honest I am considering Labour in both UK and Scottish elections. No matter how bland Starmer is its going to be better than the tories and a change in Scottish Government might give the SNP the boot up the arse it needs and they come back a better party.

The Scotland United idea is the only thing that sounds interesting on the indy side of things and something that could bring real change but it seems dead in the water

There is absolutely no guarantee it will be better under Labour than the Tories, that's the lie Starmer and Co want people to buy into.  The SNP is currently floundering, no doubt of that, but voting Labour and expecting tangible change is a dangerously lazy option and naive in the extreme, it will be akin to blanketing Scotland in cement for decades to come.

I'm 67 and I well recall Scotland returning hordes of mediocre Labour time-servers to Westminster - George Foulkes being the living embodiment.  They didn't produce back then and I won't be gambling on them doing it in future.  Keep the faith brother.

[ScotiaNostra]

6 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

There is absolutely no guarantee it will be better under Labour than the Tories, that's the lie Starmer and Co want people to buy into.  The SNP is currently floundering, no doubt of that, but voting Labour and expecting tangible change is a dangerously lazy option and naive in the extreme, it will be akin to blanketing Scotland in cement for decades to come.

I'm 67 and I well recall Scotland returning hordes of mediocre Labour time-servers to Westminster - George Foulkes being the living embodiment.  They didn't produce back then and I won't be gambling on them doing it in future.  Keep the faith brother.

I well remember Labour sitting on their arses taking everything for granted in Scotland especially, which is where I see the SNP now. I honestly just dont see the SNP delivering independence and I feel their governance over last while has been poor. I respect your view and reply though 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by ScotiaNostra

[StellarHibee]

24 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

Its my opinion that it wont be more of the same if Labour get in, it will get better for the avg person, thats why I am considering it

Fair enough. Not sure what you're basing that opinion on though.

[StellarHibee]

7 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

I well remember Labour sitting on their arses taking everything for granted in Scotland especially, which is where I see the SNP now. I honestly just dont see the SNP delivering independence and I feel their governance over last while has been poor. I respect your view and reply though 

How can they deliver it? Both the tories and that "other" party that you're considering voting for, colluded together to strip Scotland of that option. Why would you now want to vote for that party?

[sophia]

8 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

hordes of mediocre Labour time-servers to Westminster - George Foulkes being the living embodiment.  They didn't produce back then and I won't be gambling on them doing it in future.  Keep the faith brother.

You may be correct to have GF nosing in front but my word, it was a crowded field back in the day.

I'm sorry @ScotiaNostra I'm not sure that I follow you. You may well be correct and things may get better for a wee while but then what?

Thing is SKS is just following the same strategy as Nicola has in being determined to scare no horses. It didn't get her very far and I'd imagine we'll be saying the same whenever the next labour leadership election is precipitated.

 

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

26 minutes ago, sophia said:

You may be correct to have GF nosing in front but my word, it was a crowded field back in the day.

I'm sorry @ScotiaNostra I'm not sure that I follow you. You may well be correct and things may get better for a wee while but then what?

Thing is SKS is just following the same strategy as Nicola has in being determined to scare no horses. It didn't get her very far and I'd imagine we'll be saying the same whenever the next labour leadership election is precipitated.

 

 

Tommy Graham, God bless him, a politician who at age 15 ran away from a circus to join a school.

[ScotiaNostra]

42 minutes ago, sophia said:

You may be correct to have GF nosing in front but my word, it was a crowded field back in the day.

I'm sorry @ScotiaNostra I'm not sure that I follow you. You may well be correct and things may get better for a wee while but then what?

Thing is SKS is just following the same strategy as Nicola has in being determined to scare no horses. It didn't get her very far and I'd imagine we'll be saying the same whenever the next labour leadership election is precipitated.

 

 

I just have a hope now that Labour once in power will make things better and once in power and showing a better run governance will also start to edge towards some of those policies they are keeping at arms length for now. That may be misplaced but all voting is in hope to some extent.

I certainly am not claiming I am right and anyone else is wrong. In a way I guess im just trying to formulate how I feel and work through some of the questions I have that are going to influence how I vote. Which isnt as easy as it used to be.

So just putting out there how im feeling now in regards voting and politics in regards where we are at the moment

 

if that makes any sense at all

[Guest]

I hadn't heard of Tommy Graham so googled him now and read this.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/09/scot-s17.html

Included in it is a nugget on Anas Sarwar's dad:

Quote

Also in Glasgow, millionaire Labour MP, Mohammed Sarwar, has been suspended and faces legal action for allegedly attempting to bribe political opponents.

[oneteaminglasgow]

I think the one thing that can definitely be said for the SNP is that they’ll fight incredibly hard to stop any row back of devolution, which is absolutely clearly an ambition for Westminster.

I’m not sure a Labour-led Scottish government would, particularly if it was coming from a Labour-led U.K. Government.

Protecting devolution is, and has been, vital to protecting people in Scotland from the worst excesses of austerity - which Labour are currently promising to continue delivering.

Even if they’re not capable of delivering independence presently, which is a legitimate argument to make tbh, they are the party which will keep doing that in Scotland.

Edit: exhibit A

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by oneteaminglasgow

[StellarHibee]

My arse Labour will continue to support devolution.

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

What about Scotland? 

We need Independence first.  Once that happens there will be a realignment of the party political structures which will be more meaningful in a PR system of voting.

Without Independence we’re pretty much fucked as the voting patterns in England will determine who we are governed by.

 

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

There is absolutely no guarantee it will be better under Labour than the Tories, that's the lie Starmer and Co want people to buy into.  The SNP is currently floundering, no doubt of that, but voting Labour and expecting tangible change is a dangerously lazy option and naive in the extreme, it will be akin to blanketing Scotland in cement for decades to come.

I'm 67 and I well recall Scotland returning hordes of mediocre Labour time-servers to Westminster - George Foulkes being the living embodiment.  They didn't produce back then and I won't be gambling on them doing it in future.  Keep the faith brother.

Just a bairn!  
 

Aye, one of the few positives of being our age is remembering the amount of times we were fucked over by the people’s party, and I say that as someone who was a Labour Party activist for 20 years.