milhouse Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 I'm still confused - as far as I know, the Premiership has not yet been officially ended. Do the Premiership teams have to vote separately on this? Does it follow the 11-1 voting requirement? What if Rangers and Hearts vote against ending the Premiership season? If the Premiership want to finish their games of this season, what happens if this can't happen until August? Does the Championship start at that time as a 9 team league as Dundee Utd have already been told they are promoted? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 I think we'd all agree that regardless of what happens, something clear needs to be put in the rules in case this scenario happens again. Something along the lines of "In the event of a global pandemic preventing the season being played to completion, Hearts and any team managed by Ian McCall will be relegated". 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) The only comparable situation is when WW2 hit and the league has postponed for 5 years. Let's check what happened in regards to relegation then. 1939/40 - League called off after 5 games with Cowdenbeath bottom. Cowdenbeath relegated. An emergency league set up, and Cowdenbeath get told they either get relegated or put a team in, despite having no players due to the War. Cowdenbeath are only capable of completing 15 games in a 30 game season, playing half the amount of games of everyone else and finish bottom, so are relegated. 1946/47 - Cowdenbeath start again in Tier 2 Truly, Hearts are being treated with a harsher hand than any club in the history of the sport has ever felt before. Is there any examples of a Scottish team not being relegated when a season is forcibly shut down? Edited May 10, 2020 by RandomGuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, milhouse said: I'm still confused - as far as I know, the Premiership has not yet been officially ended. Do the Premiership teams have to vote separately on this? Does it follow the 11-1 voting requirement? What if Rangers and Hearts vote against ending the Premiership season? If the Premiership want to finish their games of this season, what happens if this can't happen until August? Does the Championship start at that time as a 9 team league as Dundee Utd have already been told they are promoted? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52396490 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, milhouse said: I'm still confused - as far as I know, the Premiership has not yet been officially ended. Do the Premiership teams have to vote separately on this? Does it follow the 11-1 voting requirement? What if Rangers and Hearts vote against ending the Premiership season? If the Premiership want to finish their games of this season, what happens if this can't happen until August? Does the Championship start at that time as a 9 team league as Dundee Utd have already been told they are promoted? The vote to end of average points was for the whole SPFL. The top flight has just remained open due to UEFA guidelines, and they can now declare the season over, by average points, at any point. Hearts and Rangers mewlings are simply delaying the whole process. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Wait a second. Leaving all other considerations and arguments aside, are you actually saying that you can't understand Hearts making a distinction between: A) Seasons played to a conclusion as normal. B) A season unexpectedly cut short. Just to confirm. Is that what you're actually saying? I'm saying legally the league has been deemed to be completed as thats what the members of the SPFL voted for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: The only comparable situation is when WW2 hit and the league has postponed for 5 years. Let's check what happened in regards to relegation then. 1939/40 - League called off after 5 games with Cowdenbeath bottom. Cowdenbeath relegated. An emergency league set up, and Cowdenbeath get told they either get relegated or put a team in, despite having no players due to the War. Cowdenbeath are only capable of completing 15 games in a 30 game season, playing half the amount of games of everyone else and finish bottom, so are relegated. 1946/47 - Cowdenbeath start again in Tier 2 Truly, Hearts are being treated with a harsher hand than any club in the history of the sport has ever felt before. Is there any examples of a Scottish team not being relegated when a season is forcibly shut down? Yes. Poor decisions made eighty years ago absolutely must be repeated. This is a good way to run a sport. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Yes. Poor decisions made eighty years ago absolutely must be repeated. This is a good way to run a sport. Theres a precedent for relegating sides bottom in an incomplete season. Is there a precedent for saving clubs sitting bottom from relegation in an incomplete season? You can howl and mewl all you want, but you're not even close to be the harshest treated club in this current situation never mind in the history of Scottish football. Some perspective required as you all howl at the moon and wish death on every club. Edited May 10, 2020 by RandomGuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Sparticus said: I'm saying legally the league has been deemed to be completed as thats what the members of the SPFL voted for. Sorry, you avoided answering the question. Your previous post implied that you agree with the pasted post from Hibs.net. That means that you are saying that you do not understand why a club might behave differently in the examples of: A) Seasons played to a finish as normal. B) A season unexpectedly stopped early at short notice. What I'm asking is, is this your position? Yes or no will suffice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said: Theres a precedent for relegating sides bottom in an incomplete season. Is there a precedent for saving clubs sittimg bottom from relegation in an incomplete season? You can howl and mewl all you want, but you're not even close to be the harshest treated club in this current situation never mind in the history of Scottish football. Some perspective required as you all howl at the moon and wish death on every club. You're not very good at making arguments, are you? You're putting words in my mouth that I've never used. My position is that in these unquestionably exceptional circumstances it would have been the right thing to do to come up with an exceptional solution. I've never claimed we're the 'harshest treated club in the history of Scottish football'. You shouldn't argue with people by putting words in their mouth. Secondly, your point seems to be that because this action was taken 80 years ago by a different competition using a different rulebook in a different context, that we should now be welded to it as a decision for all time. Can we ever make a different decision? If so, after how long? Why not now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, JTS98 said: Sorry, you avoided answering the question. Your previous post implied that you agree with the pasted post from Hibs.net. That means that you are saying that you do not understand why a club might behave differently in the examples of: A) Seasons played to a finish as normal. B) A season unexpectedly stopped early at short notice. What I'm asking is, is this your position? Yes or no will suffice. Where did i say i agreed with the hibs.net post? I disagreed with the poster saying this season has not been completed when it has. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Sparticus said: Where did i say i agreed with the hibs.net post? I disagreed with the poster saying this season has not been completed when it has. No. The poster pointed out the logical flaw in the Hibs.net post. You then disagreed with him over that. So. Are you saying you don't see why the comparisons made in the Hibs.net post are not valid. You've avoided the answer twice now. I'd imagine it's starting to dawn on you that it was a stupid thing to say. Maybe not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, JTS98 said: No. The poster pointed out the logical flaw in the Hibs.net post. You then disagreed with him over that. So. Are you saying you don't see why the comparisons made in the Hibs.net post are not valid. You've avoided the answer twice now. I'd imagine it's starting to dawn on you that it was a stupid thing to say. Maybe not. No really.All i did was point out that this season has been deemed to be finished.I really didnt say anything else. It just seems to me that thats a fact you dont like? Why? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, JTS98 said: You're not very good at making arguments, are you? You're putting words in my mouth that I've never used. You claimed the Hibs.net post wasnt based in reality because seasons were played to a finish. I was merely showing you a season where it didn't get played to a finish and the club bottom were relegated (after 5 games). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sparticus said: No really.All i did was point out that this season has been deemed to be finished.I really didnt say anything else. It just seems to me that thats a fact you dont like? Why? Are you asking me why I don't like the league being finished? Should have given me a heads-up that we were going to converse as five year-olds. I'm not convinced you can see the difference. Worrying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: You claimed the Hibs.net post wasnt based in reality because seasons were played to a finish. I was merely showing you a season where it didn't get played to a finish and the club bottom were relegated (after 5 games). Yes. And I've pointed out that your appeal to precedent is a weak position. Are you saying that we must never deviate from the decision made by a different governing body using a different rulebook, in a different context 8 decades ago? It seems like you are. I think the deficiencies of the post from Hibs.net are clear for all to see. Top marks for getting appeal to precedent and a straw man into the same post. Maybe go for a treble next time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Are you asking me why I don't like the league being finished? Should have given me a heads-up that we were going to converse as five year-olds. I'm not convinced you can see the difference. Worrying. Thats very condescending.Really dont think i deserve that here? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Yes. And I've pointed out that your appeal to precedent is a weak position. Are you saying that we must never deviate from the decision made by a different governing body using a different rulebook, in a different context 8 decades ago? It seems like you are. I think the deficiencies of the post from Hibs.net are clear for all to see. Top marks for getting appeal to precedent and a straw man into the same post. Maybe go for a treble next time. I was giving you an example you seemed to be claiming didnt exist. I'm just stating a simple fact that the situation Hearts are in has happened before in Scottish football. You can take from that whatever you so desire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sparticus said: Thats very condescending.Really dont think i deserve that here? To be honest, if you can't see the shortcomings in the post referred to, then I think you do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: I was giving you an example you seemed to be claiming didnt exist. I'm just stating a simple fact that the situation Hearts are in has happened before in Scottish football. You can take from that whatever you so desire. When did I claim that? Are we doubling down on the straw man here? Even by your standards, this is excellent work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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