Statement thread

[Dons_1988]

13 minutes ago, Green Day said:

Gardner is an embarrassment of a man - stating that he will only talk about "the bullying" to an independent enquiry - if you have evidence, why not release it now?

This is a "tactic" straight out of Govan.

Prediction - 

Dunfermline and Dundee will come out later today and slap down ICT, confirming that any robust chats were done as club reps, not SPFL.

I have no issue with them saving their testimony for an independent inquiry.

The Govan tactic is publicly stating you have something very awful to say but refuse to do it publicly because these things shouldn't be done in public.

The amount of these arguments being played out through the media is seriously astonishing and pathetic.

My biggest criticism of the SPFL board/exec here is not bullying, coercion, or even the infamous resolution to end the leagues. It's that they've failed basic standards of communication at just about every level to the point that they have absolutely no perceived leadership. Clubs lashing out at each other and the governing body left, right and centre.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't about to send half the clubs in the country to the wall. Some utterly dreadful behaviour being played out.

[Green Day]

8 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

It would be hilarious if it wasn't about to send half the clubs in the country to the wall.

Dont have an issue with a lot of your post, its all up for debate.

But in this bit, its not the statements or comms that will send clubs breasts skyward, unless I am missing something ?

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, Green Day said:

Dont have an issue with a lot of your post, its all up for debate.

But in this bit, its not the statements or comms that will send clubs breasts skyward, unless I am missing something ?

Not directly, and my post was more of an angry rant than a coherent opinion, but a lot of time and resource is being diverted towards this squabbling, and who knows how damaging these divisions will be when it comes to actually starting football again.

If, as presumed, we are starting behind closed doors then agreements will need to be made on a plan to generate income from that etc. Are we in a position where the clubs can sit and have constructive discussions around all of this?

[Green Day]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Not directly, and my post was more of an angry rant than a coherent opinion, but a lot of time and resource is being diverted towards this squabbling, and who knows how damaging these divisions will be when it comes to actually starting football again.

If, as presumed, we are starting behind closed doors then agreements will need to be made on a plan to generate income from that etc. Are we in a position where the clubs can sit and have constructive discussions around all of this?

Probably not, tbf.

And, as it happens I am not sure that Scottish football (even Premiership) has the cash or medical backup to ensure robust testing is in place for footballers and the club staff were we to go down the "behind closed doors" route.

Some clubs (yours and mine, for example) are lucky with the ST numbers already bought - this should keep the wolf from the door for a while but if we are into next year everyone bar Celtic is stuffed.

[Empty It]

This big voting scandal what is the desired outcome for the critics, a re-vote that would inevitably go the same way?

I seem to be the only one not fussed about the relegation, gives the manager time to work with and build a team, also I've never been to Gayfield which I'm quite looking forward to.

[Sparticus]

1 minute ago, Empty It said:

This big voting scandal what is the desired outcome for the critics, a re-vote that would inevitably go the same way?

I seem to be the only one not fussed about the relegation, gives the manager time to work with and build a team, also I've never been to Gayfield which I'm quite looking forward to.

They've paid out the money, a revote is impossible now.

[Empty It]

They've paid out the money, a revote is impossible now.

Which is what I don't understand about these statements everyone is releasing, the only possible outcome of a disgruntled statement is embarrassment to the club they're meant to be representing.

[Lobby Dossar]

42 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Not directly, and my post was more of an angry rant than a coherent opinion, but a lot of time and resource is being diverted towards this squabbling, and who knows how damaging these divisions will be when it comes to actually starting football again.

If, as presumed, we are starting behind closed doors then agreements will need to be made on a plan to generate income from that etc. Are we in a position where the clubs can sit and have constructive discussions around all of this?

Yip and the plan will be that the 2 arses of the same cheek will want 80% of any money generated 

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, Empty It said:

9 minutes ago, Sparticus said:

They've paid out the money, a revote is impossible now.

Which is what I don't understand about these statements everyone is releasing, the only possible outcome of a disgruntled statement is embarrassment to the club they're meant to be representing.

They're playing to their own gallery. Any neutral observer can see the statements as toddler tantrums they are. Club supporters see them as the Gettysburg Address or an "I have a dream" moment in history.

[Sparticus]

1 minute ago, Empty It said:

7 minutes ago, Sparticus said:

They've paid out the money, a revote is impossible now.

Which is what I don't understand about these statements everyone is releasing, the only possible outcome of a disgruntled statement is embarrassment to the club they're meant to be representing.

They have to say something i guess to appease their fans and it's understandable they're upset.

The statements are on their own websites and are aimed for their own fans to read.

I guess the media and fans of other clubs dont have to read them, its just alot of wind at the end of the day.

[EdinburghPar1975]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

My biggest criticism of the SPFL board/exec here is not bullying, coercion, or even the infamous resolution to end the leagues. It's that they've failed basic standards of communication at just about every level to the point that they have absolutely no perceived leadership. Clubs lashing out at each other and the governing body left, right and centre.

For me this is the main thing from all the fall out. Clubs taking aim without any suggestions of what could be done better, it's easy to criticise but what is the realistic alternative? 

On Sportsound at the weekend the Hamilton chairman pretty much confirmed the league was dead weeks ago following the Scottish Govts announcement on no return to training till June 12th (approx.). He advised that after the end of May he'd have few players and as such he couldn't play games, the Stranraer chairman also said they'll have no players after the end of May. Given that was the case then the SPFL would be correct (?) in advising UEFA that it looked likely the seasons would need to be called...all the clubs would've known this and any posturing towards a continuation are worthless.

The statements being made all the time are clubs trying to look after themselves, and whilst no-one can criticise a club for trying to do the best that they can for themselves there must be a 100 better ways to go about it than they actually have...

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

My biggest criticism of the SPFL board/exec here is not bullying, coercion, or even the infamous resolution to end the leagues. It's that they've failed basic standards of communication at just about every level to the point that they have absolutely no perceived leadership. Clubs lashing out at each other and the governing body left, right and centre.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't about to send half the clubs in the country to the wall. Some utterly dreadful behaviour being played out.

Since league football was suspended eight weeks ago the SPFL has managed to:

- conclude the bottom three tiers on an objective basis, while maintaining automatic promotion and relegation

- establish the same principle to apply to the Premiership once certain top flight teams give up the pathetic stalling tactics to concluding their season as well

- consider and establish that there is no scope for reconstruction, temporary or otherwise, from the 20/21 season onwards

Every club therefore knows exactly where they stand both this season and next in terms of league football; not bad for a body with 'absolutely no perceived leadership', which also had to get 75% support from the clubs to achieve the first two outcomes. And far better than the record of decisions either achieved or still left aside for yet more bickering in the Netherlands or England.

The reality is that effective decision-making in Scottish football is based on building a solid coalition of support behind the scenes - the 'smoke-filled rooms' of old. It is not achieved by taking to the media to hector clubs to support your cause, which is why Budge and the other torn-faced minority of club executives have failed just as badly in their opposition as Doncaster himself did with his 'Armageddon' pitch in 2012. The SPFL seems to have learned that lesson and so has done a solid job of steering the Scottish leagues through the crisis.

Edited May 11, 2020 by vikingTON

[Fife Saint]

St Johnstone handling this with the class and dignity one would expect. Playing chess while the likes of Hearts and Rangers piddle about with chequers.

[Dons_1988]

13 minutes ago, virginton said:

Since league football was suspended eight weeks ago the SPFL has managed to:

- conclude the bottom three tiers on an objective basis, while maintaining automatic promotion and relegation

- establish the same principle to apply to the Premiership once certain top flight teams give up the pathetic stalling tactics to concluding their season as well

- consider and establish that there is no scope for reconstruction, temporary or otherwise, from the 20/21 season onwards

Every club therefore knows exactly where they stand both this season and next in terms of league football; not bad for a body with 'absolutely no perceived leadership', which also had to get 75% support from the clubs to achieve the first two outcomes. And far better than the record of decisions either achieved or still left aside for yet more bickering in the Netherlands or England.

The reality is that effective decision-making in Scottish football is based on building a solid coalition of support behind the scenes - the 'smoke-filled rooms' of old. It is not achieved by taking to the media to hector clubs to support your cause, which is why Budge and the other torn-faced minority of club executives have failed just as badly in their opposition as Doncaster himself did with his 'Armageddon' pitch in 2012. The SPFL seems to have learned that lesson and so has done a solid job of steering the Scottish leagues through the crisis.

I think I said elsewhere that ultimately they've reached the right conclusion.

It has been a shambles though and if multiple members of the organisation you are leading are publicly lambasting you (rightly or wrongly), then you have failed in both leadership & communication. By any measure this has become an absolute embarrassment for the game.

Clearly clubs are behaving appallingly but they need to take responsibility for this.

[vikingTON]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

I think I said elsewhere that ultimately they've reached the right conclusion.

It has been a shambles though and if multiple members of the organisation you are leading are publicly lambasting you (rightly or wrongly), then you have failed in both leadership & communication. By any measure this has become an absolute embarrassment for the game.

Clearly clubs are behaving appallingly but they need to take responsibility for this.

There were always going to be clubs lambasting the SPFL: that's how Scottish football has operated for decades. And if you had been asked to pick which ones it would have been on March 13 based on a decision to call the leagues as they stood you'd probably have about 90% of them correct, as they all either had skin in the game or an overriding 9iaR agenda like Sevco. 

The test of good leadership is to get a coherent set of decisions through, which would only have been hindered if the SPFL took to the media every day to fling shite back and forth with the noisy minority of clubs.

[The DA]

4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I think I said elsewhere that ultimately they've reached the right conclusion.

It has been a shambles though and if multiple members of the organisation you are leading are publicly lambasting you (rightly or wrongly), then you have failed in both leadership & communication. By any measure this has become an absolute embarrassment for the game.

Clearly clubs are behaving appallingly but they need to take responsibility for this.

If the clubs lambasting you are only those who have lost out due to a vote involving all 42 clubs, then i don't think they have failed.

[wastecoatwilly]

17 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I think I said elsewhere that ultimately they've reached the right conclusion.

It has been a shambles though and if multiple members of the organisation you are leading are publicly lambasting you (rightly or wrongly), then you have failed in both leadership & communication. By any measure this has become an absolute embarrassment for the game.

Clearly clubs are behaving appallingly but they need to take responsibility for this.

I'm surprised you can't see past the dissenting voices.

Edited May 11, 2020 by wastecoatwilly

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

There were always going to be clubs lambasting the SPFL: that's how Scottish football has operated for decades. And if you had been asked to pick which ones it would have been on March 13 based on a decision to call the leagues as they stood you'd probably have about 90% of them correct, as they all either had skin in the game or an overriding 9iaR agenda like Sevco. 

The test of good leadership is to get a coherent set of decisions through, which would only have been hindered if the SPFL took to the media every day to fling shite back and forth with the noisy minority of clubs.

No, that's one test of leadership.

If you make a decision of the preferred option and can anticipate everyone who won't like it, then I'd expect them to be able to engage with those parties proactively to avoid the absolute mess we're currently living through. If they took your attitude of 'that's just Scottish football' then that would be very worrying indeed.

And the SPFL have done plenty of shite flinging in the media too.

[The DA]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

No, that's one test of leadership.

If you make a decision of the preferred option and can anticipate everyone who won't like it, then I'd expect them to be able to engage with those parties proactively to avoid the absolute mess we're currently living through. If they took your attitude of 'that's just Scottish football' then that would be very worrying indeed.

And the SPFL have done plenty of shite flinging in the media too.

There is no solution that will keep Rangers onside.  Hearts MIGHT be placated by an increased parachute payment but Rangers will only settle for voiding or, possibly, by the removal of Doncaster.

[wastecoatwilly]

6 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

No, that's one test of leadership.

The board is there to represent the clubs and have their best interest they got 80% 
The other 20% are creating a perfect storm, is it a case of who shouts the loudest?
Stewart Robertson went against the board and voted on self- interest,what did he do for the best interests of the clubs?
If there is 15 or 20 clubs that vote tomorrow for an independent inquiry then the board are on a shaky peg.