OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-

[DC92]

3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Awfy quiet here.

Just the usual really. There was no chat after the Rangers game either.

It's probably also quite difficult to draw many sensible conclusions from those first two games.

[VincentGuerin]

28 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Awfy quiet here.

Sunday is a day for quiet contemplation and reflection.

[Joe Terrapin]

Och well. There's always the quickest title challenge capitulation in history title to cherish.

[VincentGuerin]

14 minutes ago, Joe Terrapin said:

Och well. There's always the quickest title challenge capitulation in history title to cherish.

[hk blues]

11 hours ago, DC92 said:

Just the usual really. There was no chat after the Rangers game either.

It's probably also quite difficult to draw many sensible conclusions from those first two games.

If it's any consolation, Dundee is always a difficult game for you guys.   

[Gorgie greatness]

2 hours ago, hk blues said:

If it's any consolation, Dundee’s first game of the season is always a difficult game for you guys.   But you’ll pump us silly rest of the campaign 

Fixed

[hk blues]

21 minutes ago, Gorgie greatness said:

Fixed

it wasn't our 1st game of the season. It wasn't even our 1st league game of the season. 

[VincentGuerin]

Naismith's post-match slightly concerning for me.

I understand part of this may just be his personality. He does seem tetchy at times, and is perhaps a bit insecure when criticised, and a few ITK people have commented over the summer that he feels he doesn't get the credit he deserves. So maybe that all feeds into this.

But I think his failure to ackonwledge his part in the defeat on Saturday is quite poor. I think most people who watch Hearts regularly could have told you that wasn't the midfield to play for a game that was always likely to be a bit of a battle, and the shift in shape didn't seem to be grounded in anything sensible, considering that the team had looked perfectly solid the week before against a stronger opponent.

He's absolutely right that the players were off the pace and that individual and team errors cost us the game, but I don't think he escapes criticism here.

I'm not quite drawing up a new Naismith Out bedsheet, but I do now have a bedsheet in mind for the task.

[Tony Wonder]

27 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Naismith's post-match slightly concerning for me.

I understand part of this may just be his personality. He does seem tetchy at times, and is perhaps a bit insecure when criticised, and a few ITK people have commented over the summer that he feels he doesn't get the credit he deserves. So maybe that all feeds into this.

But I think his failure to ackonwledge his part in the defeat on Saturday is quite poor. I think most people who watch Hearts regularly could have told you that wasn't the midfield to play for a game that was always likely to be a bit of a battle, and the shift in shape didn't seem to be grounded in anything sensible, considering that the team had looked perfectly solid the week before against a stronger opponent.

He's absolutely right that the players were off the pace and that individual and team errors cost us the game, but I don't think he escapes criticism here.

I'm not quite drawing up a new Naismith Out bedsheet, but I do now have a bedsheet in mind for the task.

I think from his point of view, we play 3 at the back a lot. He's always switched from a 4 to a 3 and it's often even after good results. If he decided it's purely the formation after one defeat it'd be pretty weak minded considering it's how we/he have operated for his whole time in charge. Couple that with every single goal being hopeless from a players perspective I can see why he's not in a rush to blame the tactics. If it's something we see happen more than once, I'd like to see him address it more, but as it is I get why he's reacting like he did.

Also I think there was some merit in the shift in that it was designed to minimalise the threat in behind from Murray. It didn't pan out that way, but I can see why he considered it. That said I'm not saying he didn't get it wrong I think he did, but I understand why he's not immediately chucking that setup under the bus.

[DC92]

20 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Naismith's post-match slightly concerning for me.

I understand part of this may just be his personality. He does seem tetchy at times, and is perhaps a bit insecure when criticised, and a few ITK people have commented over the summer that he feels he doesn't get the credit he deserves. So maybe that all feeds into this.

But I think his failure to ackonwledge his part in the defeat on Saturday is quite poor. I think most people who watch Hearts regularly could have told you that wasn't the midfield to play for a game that was always likely to be a bit of a battle, and the shift in shape didn't seem to be grounded in anything sensible, considering that the team had looked perfectly solid the week before against a stronger opponent.

He's absolutely right that the players were off the pace and that individual and team errors cost us the game, but I don't think he escapes criticism here.

I'm not quite drawing up a new Naismith Out bedsheet, but I do now have a bedsheet in mind for the task.

Yeah, it's nonsense to say the team selection has nothing to do with the result. The individual errors were the most obvious factor, but they probably wouldn't have happened if we hadn't set up wrongly with a powderpuff midfield and failed to change it until it was too late.

Ultimately Saturday was our 3rd defeat to non-OF opposition in almost 11 months and we've had a couple of wins over Celtic in that time, so Naismith has plenty of credit in the bank. But everything we've done well in that period - maintaining control in games, being solid defensively, minimising errors - was missing on Saturday, and that's undeniably connected to playing a setup we would never have played last season.

The good thing is, although it's a new season, everything that made us good last season is still here. Even if the new signings add nothing we've started with a high floor. For that reason and the performance against Rangers I'm not massively concerned by Saturday's shitshow yet.

[DC92]

18 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

I think from his point of view, we play 3 at the back a lot. He's always switched from a 4 to a 3 and it's often even after good results. If he decided it's purely the formation after one defeat it'd be pretty weak minded considering it's how we/he have operated for his whole time in charge. Couple that with every single goal being hopeless from a players perspective I can see why he's not in a rush to blame the tactics. If it's something we see happen more than once, I'd like to see him address it more, but as it is I get why he's reacting like he did.

Also I think there was some merit in the shift in that it was designed to minimalise the threat in behind from Murray. It didn't pan out that way, but I can see why he considered it. That said I'm not saying he didn't get it wrong I think he did, but I understand why he's not immediately chucking that setup under the bus.

There's nothing wrong with playing a back three at times, and a back three might have worked on Saturday if Dundee had set up as expected. The bigger issue was we started a midfield we'd never have used last season.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

6 minutes ago, DC92 said:

There's nothing wrong with playing a back three at times, and a back three might have worked on Saturday if Dundee had set up as expected. The bigger issue was we started a midfield we'd never have used last season.

Tbf it's a midfield we'd be unlikely to play this season if everyone was available.   

I also think the first goal had a massive effect on the perception of how we'd started on Saturday, it had been pretty even up till that.  Obvious from that point it goes to shit and we failed to quell the midfield very well.   

[Tony Wonder]

26 minutes ago, DC92 said:

There's nothing wrong with playing a back three at times, and a back three might have worked on Saturday if Dundee had set up as expected. The bigger issue was we started a midfield we'd never have used last season.

The midfield was 2 of the same 3 in the middle as against Rangers. Moving McKay central was a mistake, but it shouldn't be enough to completely f**k our whole decision making/energy as a team. Also that's the midfield mainly down to injuries and the fact Boateng hasn't been with us very long. I assume going forward he'll be in.

I also don't think many seen the lineup and thought it'd be a disaster, it was a case of "oh 3 at the back". The only obvious issue was McKay ahead of Dhanda, but Barrie McKay is an established trusted player, I don't think there were any immediate red flags for many people.

Edited August 12 by Tony Wonder

[Galajambo]

A lot of people forget that Naisy is still a rookie manager and he's learning on the job, it would be nice to hear him saying that it was his fault and he'd f**ked up, though. 

The guy is a winner and he tries hard to get this across to his team, but some of the errors are glaringly obvious, Mackey in the middle was horrendous, he hides when it gets tough and is a one trick pony on the left wing, if he's in the mood! 

[lennyzer0]

17 hours ago, DC92 said:

Just the usual really. There was no chat after the Rangers game either.

It's probably also quite difficult to draw many sensible conclusions from those first two games.

Yeah, better team won on Saturday, but we were absolutely rank, so there's not much to be taken for either team out of that.

[VincentGuerin]

2 hours ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Tbf it's a midfield we'd be unlikely to play this season if everyone was available.   

I also think the first goal had a massive effect on the perception of how we'd started on Saturday, it had been pretty even up till that.  Obvious from that point it goes to shit and we failed to quell the midfield very well.   

I think this is fair. Until we lost the first goal I thought we looked fine and I felt we were likely to score.

[Kyle Reese]

I thought we were decent and promising against the ***.

I thought our first half vs Dundee was just about as bad as anything I have ever seen from us… just about.

We will find consistency. 

[Galajambo]

3 of our best midfielders didn't start on Saturday, Beni, the Hoff, and Dhanda, I can't wait to see all 3 of them playing in the same side. 

[DC92]

4 hours ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Tbf it's a midfield we'd be unlikely to play this season if everyone was available.   

I also think the first goal had a massive effect on the perception of how we'd started on Saturday, it had been pretty even up till that.  Obvious from that point it goes to shit and we failed to quell the midfield very well.   

 

4 hours ago, Tony Wonder said:

The midfield was 2 of the same 3 in the middle as against Rangers. Moving McKay central was a mistake, but it shouldn't be enough to completely f**k our whole decision making/energy as a team. Also that's the midfield mainly down to injuries and the fact Boateng hasn't been with us very long. I assume going forward he'll be in.

I also don't think many seen the lineup and thought it'd be a disaster, it was a case of "oh 3 at the back". The only obvious issue was McKay ahead of Dhanda, but Barrie McKay is an established trusted player, I don't think there were any immediate red flags for many people.

The midfield against Rangers had McKay and Dhanda drifting in from either side and Shankland dropping in. When we've played a back three previously under Naismith it's been three in midfield with Grant probably the most "attacking" of those.

 

But anyway, my point isn't about the team selection being obviously wrong before kick-off. Midfield injuries was a factor, poor performances was a factor, individual errors was a factor. Team selection and a lack of changes until half time was also a factor which I think contributed to the second and third of those. Apparently Naismith disagrees.

[DC92]

Some really important games coming up. Falkirk away in the cup is bound to be tricky and then we've got the away leg of the Europa playoff and a trip to Motherwell in the next 10 days.

Looking at the next 4 league games for each side, we'll be doing well to still be within 5 points of Aberdeen when we visit Pittodrie in October. It's very plausible a defeat in that game would us double digits behind with the bulk of the European campaign still ahead of us.

Obviously the fixture list evens itself out (mostly), but there would be a huge amount of negativity if that scenario transpires and that can be hard to shift. It would be fair to point out we started slowly last season but I don't think we can afford the same this time around.