OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-

[topcat(The most tip top)]

1 hour ago, DC92 said:

Some really important games coming up. Falkirk away in the cup is bound to be tricky and then we've got the away leg of the Europa playoff and a trip to Motherwell in the next 10 days.

Looking at the next 4 league games for each side, we'll be doing well to still be within 5 points of Aberdeen when we visit Pittodrie in October. It's very plausible a defeat in that game would us double digits behind with the bulk of the European campaign still ahead of us.

Obviously the fixture list evens itself out (mostly), but there would be a huge amount of negativity if that scenario transpires and that can be hard to shift. It would be fair to point out we started slowly last season but I don't think we can afford the same this time around.

Even the normally zen like hearts support could become a little bit negative and grumpy under those conditions

 

[VincentGuerin]

6 hours ago, DC92 said:

Some really important games coming up. Falkirk away in the cup is bound to be tricky and then we've got the away leg of the Europa playoff and a trip to Motherwell in the next 10 days.

Looking at the next 4 league games for each side, we'll be doing well to still be within 5 points of Aberdeen when we visit Pittodrie in October. It's very plausible a defeat in that game would us double digits behind with the bulk of the European campaign still ahead of us.

Obviously the fixture list evens itself out (mostly), but there would be a huge amount of negativity if that scenario transpires and that can be hard to shift. It would be fair to point out we started slowly last season but I don't think we can afford the same this time around.

Yip. A lot of people overlook it every year, but fixture scheduling is important as the early part of the season can quite easily put a team under pressure, while a side like Aberdeen have a pretty kind start, which can give them real momentum. It's the price of success in a way.

We'll almost certainly be significantly behind Aberdeen after the first 11 fixtures, and probably by 22 fixtures as well. The issue's going to be whether we can keep it to a recoverable gap.

We're definitely going to need to roll up our sleeves to finish third again this year.

[Tony Wonder]

1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said:

Yip. A lot of people overlook it every year, but fixture scheduling is important as the early part of the season can quite easily put a team under pressure, while a side like Aberdeen have a pretty kind start, which can give them real momentum. It's the price of success in a way.

We'll almost certainly be significantly behind Aberdeen after the first 11 fixtures, and probably by 22 fixtures as well. The issue's going to be whether we can keep it to a recoverable gap.

We're definitely going to need to roll up our sleeves to finish third again this year.

Why would we be significantly behind Aberdeen after 11 games? 3 out our next 4 are winnable. We have to play Aberdeen and Aberdeen have a spell of us, Celtic Rangers and Hibs.

We could fall behind a bit, we could also be pretty even with them. 

Saturday just past can't become something folk start losing the plot over. There's 108 points to play for. We'll have spells of very favourable fixtures and play the same teams as Aberdeen. 

[VincentGuerin]

34 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

Why would we be significantly behind Aberdeen after 11 games? 3 out our next 4 are winnable. We have to play Aberdeen and Aberdeen have a spell of us, Celtic Rangers and Hibs.

We could fall behind a bit, we could also be pretty even with them. 

Saturday just past can't become something folk start losing the plot over. There's 108 points to play for. We'll have spells of very favourable fixtures and play the same teams as Aberdeen. 

I'm not losing the plot over Saturday. Days like that happen most seasons and you just accept it. I saw Levein's third-place finishers lose 4-0 at Falkirk and 6-1 at Motherwell. These things happen.

This round of fixtures we play Motherwell, Hibs, Aberdeen, away after European fixtures, while Aberdeen have at least two home fixtures (possibly three) against sides off the back of European games. 4 points from our next 3 games would be a decent outcome, while Aberdeen have Killie and Motherwell at home and play Ross County. We could do fine in the next three games and end up 8 points behind them.

I'd be surprised if we're not a good few points behind them by the end of the first time round the block.

Both times we play them in the first half of the season we'll have played the Thursday. It's not the end of the world, and you'd rather be in our shoes than theirs, but you can't say that adding in 8/10 extra games over four months won't impact our competitiveness while Aberdeen go Saturday to Saturday.

The fixtures will turn, and I think our squad is good enough to make up ground when they do. But it's perfectly realistic to look at the way the fixtures have fallen and note that we may have to hold our nerve for a few months here.

If we're third by 22 games, Naismith will have done a genuinely excellent job.

 

Edited August 14 by VincentGuerin

[Tony Wonder]

6 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I'm not losing the plot over Saturday. Days like that happen most seasons and you just accept it. I saw Levein's third-place finishers lose 4-0 at Falkirk and 6-1 at Motherwell. These things happen.

This round of fixtures we play Motherwell, Hibs, Aberdeen, away after European fixtures, while Aberdeen have at least two home fixtures (possibly three) against sides off the back of European games. 4 points from our next 3 games would be a decent outcome, while Aberdeen have Killie and Motherwell at home and play Ross County. We could do fine in the next three games and end up 8 points behind them.

I'd be surprised if we're not a good few points behind them by the end of the first time round the block.

Both times we play them in the first half of the season we'll have played the Thursday. It's not the end of the world, and you'd rather be in our shoes than theirs, but you can't say that adding in 8/10 extra games over four months won't impact our competitiveness while Aberdeen go Saturday to Saturday.

The fixtures will turn, and I think our squad is good enough to make up ground when they do. But it's perfectly realistic to look at the way the fixtures have fallen and note that we may have to hold our nerve for a few months here.

If we're third by 22 games, Naismith will have done a genuinely excellent job.

 

The extra games will take a toll, I don't think necessarily to the extent we are miles behind though.

Last time we were in the groups we actually handled the Sunday game pretty well. It was the collapse after the WC break that were the bigger issue. With the squad we have I still expect us to be picking up points after Euro games.

[VincentGuerin]

6 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

The extra games will take a toll, I don't think necessarily to the extent we are miles behind though.

Last time we were in the groups we actually handled the Sunday game pretty well. It was the collapse after the WC break that were the bigger issue. With the squad we have I still expect us to be picking up points after Euro games.

I don't think we'll get beat every week, but I think our points rate will be impaired.

We did ok last time. The win at Motherwell post-Riga was good (if somewhat fortunate), and we came back well at Rugby Park and won at Dingwall. I think it's fair to say the fixtures are tougher this time though. We'll also have Killie away (tougher than two years ago), as well as Rangers, although OF away is probably a good post-Europe game.

I'm not saying we've got no chance and we just wave the white flag. It's a long season. But I think we'll sit relatively far down the table for a while, and people are going to need to keep their nerve about that.

Edited August 14 by VincentGuerin

[Dons_1988]

Whilst it’s nice that our two league wins are unnerving the hearts support, I think you’re overestimating the levels of consistency we’re likely to have. It’s still very early days for us. 

[DC92]

12 hours ago, Tony Wonder said:

Why would we be significantly behind Aberdeen after 11 games? 3 out our next 4 are winnable. We have to play Aberdeen and Aberdeen have a spell of us, Celtic Rangers and Hibs.

We could fall behind a bit, we could also be pretty even with them. 

Saturday just past can't become something folk start losing the plot over. There's 108 points to play for. We'll have spells of very favourable fixtures and play the same teams as Aberdeen. 

I don't know about being well behind after 11 games, but even if we take 7/9 from Motherwell, Dundee United and Ross County, there's still a fair chance Aberdeen could extend their lead with 4 winnable games in that time. That gives them an opportunity to be 9/10/11 points ahead if they beat us at Pittodrie post-Europe.

The point is that this scenario could transpire without us having a disastrous start to the season and without Aberdeen picking up any particularly big results, so it's not about losing the plot. People will lose the plot if it does happen though and the pressure will be on the players and manager.

On that basis I think the next few games are bigger than they "should" be at this stage in the season.

Edited August 15 by DC92

[DukDukGoose]

36 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Whilst it’s nice that our two league wins are unnerving the hearts support, I think you’re overestimating the levels of consistency we’re likely to have. It’s still very early days for us. 

Vinny playing the long game.

 

[Dons_1988]

12 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said:

Vinny playing the long game.

 

Should really keep note this season. He had us down as  biggest competition for 3rd and relegation fodder about this time last year across a few threads…

[VincentGuerin]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Should really keep note this season. He had us down as  biggest competition for 3rd and relegation fodder about this time last year across a few threads…

I don't think there's a problem there.

Aberdeen's struggles last season weren't a shock to me, as regular readers will know. But in our league there are always teams that could go either way. Aberdeen were one last season. They'd lost important players, they had an unconvincing coach, they had the European congestion, but they also had some decent players and are willing to spend money.

Hibs are a good example this season. They're in a situation just now where bottom six/relegation battle wouldn't be a shock, but with a couple of tweaks they could quite easily challenge for third.

Our league is like that. Momentum is huge, injuries have a massive impact, and there's not a huge amount between the teams.

As it stands, I'd expect Aberdeen to be third going into the new year as I think the overall lay of the land favours them for now. After that is harder to predict.

Edited August 15 by VincentGuerin

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

I think I'll wait to see if Aberdeen are decent when they play harder games before getting the ticker tape out.  Encouraging start but not exactly looking like world beaters so far. 

The whole point of our strengthening the squad so much is to cope better with the increased number of games we'll face. Will we, who knows but we're certainly a lot better prepared than the last time we went into the group stages. 

[VincentGuerin]

2 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

I think I'll wait to see if Aberdeen are decent when they play harder games before getting the ticker tape out.  Encouraging start but not exactly looking like world beaters so far. 

The whole point of our strengthening the squad so much is to cope better with the increased number of games we'll face. Will we, who knows but we're certainly a lot better prepared than the last time we went into the group stages. 

This is certainly true.

I think there's a bit of misunderstanding of the point here. I absolutely would not swap squads with Aberdeen at the moment.

I think the point is that we're going to need to be patient this season.

[Dons_1988]

14 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I don't think there's a problem there.

Aberdeen's struggles last season weren't a shock to me, as regular readers will know. But in our league there are always teams that could go either way. Aberdeen were one last season. They'd lost important players, they had an unconvincing coach, they had the European congestion, but they also had some decent players and are willing to spend money.

Hibs are a good example this season. They're in a situation just now where bottom six/relegation battle wouldn't be a shock, but with a couple of tweaks they could quite easily challenge for third.

Our league is like that. Momentum is huge, injuries have a massive impact, and there's not a huge amount between the teams.

As it stands, I'd expect Aberdeen to be third going into the new year as I think the overall lay of the land favours them for now. After that is harder to predict.

 I’m just noising you up min 

[VincentGuerin]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

 I’m just noising you up min 

Joshing is acceptable up until Wednesday. From Thursday onwards it's ALL BUSINESS.

Consult your handbook.

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

Joshing is acceptable up until Wednesday. From Thursday onwards it's ALL BUSINESS.

Consult your handbook.

Section 4.3.6 of the handbook states that the deadline is Wednesday ahead of the relevant tournament or competition being contested at the weekend. 

This is league cup weekend, I have specifically targeted league business which is fair game from now until next Thursday. 

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

Section 4.3.6 of the handbook states that the deadline is Wednesday ahead of the relevant tournament or competition being contested at the weekend. 

This is league cup weekend, I have specifically targeted league business which is fair game from now until next Thursday. 

I do apologise. Duly noted.

Also relieved to note that it is indeed Thursday, as I immediately realised I wasn't sure after my last reply.

[DukDukGoose]

29 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

I think I'll wait to see if Aberdeen are decent when they play harder games before getting the ticker tape out.  Encouraging start but not exactly looking like world beaters so far. 

The whole point of our strengthening the squad so much is to cope better with the increased number of games we'll face. Will we, who knows but we're certainly a lot better prepared than the last time we went into the group stages. 

Penrice and Spittal have weakened your squad.

Both are never good enough for Hearts.

If you can get Dhanda playing to a high level, without being the fical point, then he'll be a gem.

[Tony Wonder]

17 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said:

Penrice and Spittal have weakened your squad.

Both are never good enough for Hearts.

If you can get Dhanda playing to a high level, without being the fical point, then he'll be a gem.

Penrice is soon to be backup to a Colombian international. As a squad player he's perfectly fine.

Spittal the jury is out but he's produced good numbers for Motherwell the last two seasons and made Theo Bair look like a player. Again, he won't be anywhere near someone we are relying upon unless he steps up.  Both fine enough options IMO, and can't see is as weakening us as not coming in as starters.

[Tony Wonder]

3 hours ago, DC92 said:

I don't know about being well behind after 11 games, but even if we take 7/9 from Motherwell, Dundee United and Ross County, there's still a fair chance Aberdeen could extend their lead with 4 winnable games in that time. That gives them an opportunity to be 9/10/11 points ahead if they beat us at Pittodrie post-Europe.

The point is that this scenario could transpire without us having a disastrous start to the season and without Aberdeen picking up any particularly big results, so it's not about losing the plot. People will lose the plot if it does happen though and the pressure will be on the players and manager.

On that basis I think the next few games are bigger than they "should" be at this stage in the season.

I don't disagree it could happen, but if it does and we have a decent enough start ourselves there shouldn't be added pressure or people losing the plot is my point. You can only play what's in front of you and Aberdeen will have tricky spells as well. Good thing is Naismith will keep patient and not panic, even if some of the fans do.