OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-

[Ludo*1]

26 minutes ago, DC92 said:

I appreciate this post is a week old, but how is Critchley more lowly regarded than someone who hasn't managed in the English Championship for 9 years, hasn't been given a job by anyone above League 2 in that time, and demonstrably did nowhere near as well managing the same club (Blackpool)?

Yet reading the Blackpool forum they wanted Bowyer instead of Critchley at the time of the reappointment.

Probably because Critchley's career as a manager has been a bit of constant failure thus far. I dunno, it just is what it is.

Maybe he'll be a masterstroke.

[Gorgie greatness]

One swallow does not make an autumn & midden we’re shite. It’s a good start though.

[DC92]

8 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Yet reading the Blackpool forum they wanted Bowyer instead of Critchley at the time of the reappointment.

Probably because Critchley's career as a manager has been a bit of constant failure thus far. I dunno, it just is what it is.

Maybe he'll be a masterstroke.

Yet they did hire Critchley and no-one is hiring Bowyer.

Their fans didn't like him because he left to take an assistant's job, but he's still quite clearly their most successful manager over the last decade considering he got them promoted in 3rd in League 1 and then comfortably kept them in the Championship the first time around. Nonsense to claim that's a failure relative to their usual performance. Even their 8th place last season is better than anything else they've managed in the last decade.

It's clearly an underwhelming appointment but the analytics angle offers a wee bit of hope and today was a good start.

[VincentGuerin]

On 13/10/2024 at 19:36, Ludo*1 said:

Gary Bowyer is more highly regarded than Neil Critchley is down South and Hearts fans would be going absolutely mental if they appointed someone Dundee punted.

It's not looking good lads.

 

15 hours ago, DC92 said:

I appreciate this post is a week old, but how is Critchley more lowly regarded than someone who hasn't managed in the English Championship for 9 years, hasn't been given a job by anyone above League 2 in that time, and demonstrably did nowhere near as well managing the same club (Blackpool)?

It's a strange comment from Ludo.

And what does it even mean? I live in the East Midlands and know lots of supporters of EFL clubs. Can't recall ever in my life hearing anyone discussing Bowyer in relation to a new job etc.

Critchley's record is up and down, but I'm not sure what Ludo is looking at about Bowyer's career to have him so highly rated.

Is Bowyer not still unemployed as well? Quite an achievement for a "highly regarded" coach in a country where coaches get sacked every half an hour or so.

[Ludo*1]

2 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

 

It's a strange comment from Ludo.

And what does it even mean? I live in the East Midlands and know lots of supporters of EFL clubs. Can't recall ever in my life hearing anyone discussing Bowyer in relation to a new job etc.

Critchley's record is up and down, but I'm not sure what Ludo is looking at about Bowyer's career to have him so highly rated.

Is Bowyer not still unemployed as well? Quite an achievement for a "highly regarded" coach in a country where coaches get sacked every half an hour or so.

Think it's fairly clear what I mean tbh. But if Hearts fans want to rally round Critchley with the siege mentality defending him then by all means.

At least it's not as bad as @Tony Wonder defending the 64 year old Norwegian's potential appointment because he won a medal in women's football 25 year ago but you're pretty close tbf.

[VincentGuerin]

1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said:

Think it's fairly clear what I mean tbh. But if Hearts fans want to rally round Critchley with the siege mentality defending him then by all means.

At least it's not as bad as @Tony Wonder defending the 64 year old Norwegian's potential appointment because he won a medal in women's football 25 year ago but you're pretty close tbf.

I think you're arguing with a point nobody has really made.

Hearts supporters in general have been completely underwhelmed by the appointment. That doesn't change the weirdness of your post.

You've still not explained what you meant. How "highly regarded" do you think this Bowyer lad is in England? How come he's out of work and has been for more than a complete season?

[Ludo*1]

55 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I think you're arguing with a point nobody has really made.

Hearts supporters in general have been completely underwhelmed by the appointment. That doesn't change the weirdness of your post.

You've still not explained what you meant. How "highly regarded" do you think this Bowyer lad is in England? How come he's out of work and has been for more than a complete season?

I explained it a few posts ago. The general point was just how underwhelming the appointment is. Bowyer and Critchley, both being former Blackpool managers, with Bowyer being massively favoured by the online fan base at least, I thought was a worthwhile comparison in that if you had appointed Bowyer, Hearts fanbase would have went mental - and rightfully so. 

Critchley in my view, is an ambitious appointment when a Dundee or Dundee United are at a low in the Championship and needing to freshen up away from the usual shite Scottish names.

Critchley may well turn out to be a fantastic manager for you lads but it's more than just underwhelming to be shopping in that market when you finished 3rd in Scottish football last season.

It wasn't as if I was advocating Bowyer as a manager - more suggesting that he's a fairly comparable manager that's had Scottish experience and because he's more tainted with that experience makes him look considerably worse (despite being a success).

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, Ludo*1 said:

I explained it a few posts ago. The general point was just how underwhelming the appointment is. Bowyer and Critchley, both being former Blackpool managers, with Bowyer being massively favoured by the online fan base at least, I thought was a worthwhile comparison in that if you had appointed Bowyer, Hearts fanbase would have went mental - and rightfully so. 

Critchley in my view, is an ambitious appointment when a Dundee or Dundee United are at a low in the Championship and needing to freshen up away from the usual shite Scottish names.

Critchley may well turn out to be a fantastic manager for you lads but it's more than just underwhelming to be shopping in that market when you finished 3rd in Scottish football last season.

It wasn't as if I was advocating Bowyer as a manager - more suggesting that he's a fairly comparable manager that's had Scottish experience and because he's more tainted with that experience makes him look considerably worse (despite being a success).

Your posts read as if Hearts fans are massively in favour of Critchley being appointed. This is miles off the mark.

But he's here now and we get on with it. What else is there to do?

I still think your Bowyer comparison is just a bit strange. Critchley has been employed by Liverpool and Aston Villa, has a League One promotion and was hired by a good-sized Championship club. In the last five years Bowyer has only been hired at EFL League 2 and Scottish Championship level. He's been on the dole for more than a year. It's a huge stretch to say this is a more highly thought of coach.

It's just not clear what your arguing about or where you get back-up for any of your assertions. But, whatever.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

6 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I explained it a few posts ago. The general point was just how underwhelming the appointment is. Bowyer and Critchley, both being former Blackpool managers, with Bowyer being massively favoured by the online fan base at least, I thought was a worthwhile comparison in that if you had appointed Bowyer, Hearts fanbase would have went mental - and rightfully so. 

Critchley in my view, is an ambitious appointment when a Dundee or Dundee United are at a low in the Championship and needing to freshen up away from the usual shite Scottish names.

Critchley may well turn out to be a fantastic manager for you lads but it's more than just underwhelming to be shopping in that market when you finished 3rd in Scottish football last season.

It wasn't as if I was advocating Bowyer as a manager - more suggesting that he's a fairly comparable manager that's had Scottish experience and because he's more tainted with that experience makes him look considerably worse (despite being a success).

We buy 1st division players so it's probably right that we have a 1st division manager. 

[Darren]

What evidence is there of the Blackpool "online fanbase" massively favouring Bowyer over Critchley?

And does it even matter anyway? Most Hearts fans would reappoint Paulo Sergio at the drop of a hat and that'd be a terrible decision.

[Tony Wonder]

2 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Think it's fairly clear what I mean tbh. But if Hearts fans want to rally round Critchley with the siege mentality defending him then by all means.

At least it's not as bad as @Tony Wonder defending the 64 year old Norwegian's potential appointment because he won a medal in women's football 25 year ago but you're pretty close tbf.

Still banging that drum? I mentioned it as part of his overall achievements, never claimed it should land him the job.

But deflect away.

[Ludo*1]

4 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

Still banging that drum? I mentioned it as part of his overall achievements, never claimed it should land him the job.

But deflect away.

Not a drum to bang. Just pointing out a laughably embarrassing clutch at straws.

[VincentGuerin]

4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Not a drum to bang. Just pointing out a laughably embarrassing clutch at straws.

You genuinely seem to be arguing with your imagination here.

Utterly bizarre stuff.

[Tony Wonder]

5 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Not a drum to bang. Just pointing out a laughably embarrassing clutch at straws.

I am not embarrassed that I thought Hogmo would be a decent appointment and I never said he'd be a good choice purely because he won a gold medal.

And it never happened, so I'm not fussed either way now tbh.

Edited Sunday at 14:03 by Tony Wonder

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

You genuinely seem to be arguing with your imagination here.

Utterly bizarre stuff.

I've made some fairly clear points but you choose to keep your head in the stands and keep repeating the same points as if you're genuinely confused.

That's on you rather than me m8.

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, Ludo*1 said:

I've made some fairly clear points but you choose to keep your head in the stands and keep repeating the same points as if you're genuinely confused.

That's on you rather than me m8.

The way it looks to me is that you seem to think Hearts fans are bending over backwards to justify the appointment, but nobody is. And you reckon this unemployed League Two/Scottish Championship coach (who hardly any c**t has heard of) is somehow held in high regard in England.

You're having a very weird one.

[Ludo*1]

4 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

The way it looks to me is that you seem to think Hearts fans are bending over backwards to justify the appointment, but nobody is. And you reckon this unemployed League Two/Scottish Championship coach (who hardly any c**t has heard of) is somehow held in high regard in England.

You're having a very weird one.

I've not once said that. If that's your interpretation then that's on you. And if you've not heard of a manager that won the second tier in Scotland just 2 seasons ago, again that says more about you than anything else tbh.

I'll let you have the last word on it though as you seem desperate to have it so pile in m8 as I've moved on to enjoying the Kilmarnock vs Rangers thread more.

Edited Sunday at 14:11 by Ludo*1

[footnotes]

Reading the match report from the game against St. Mirren made me think that Hearts were playing the formation that Brazil used in the '90s to early '00s.  It was a 2-2-2-2 through the middle, plus two cyborg-like wingbacks - Roberto Carlos and Cafu.  It's great to watch and quite balanced with the 2 defensive midfielders and 2 creative midfielders ahead, but your wingbacks will be knackered! 

Looking at the highlights, maybe Spittal coming in off the right and Dhanda coming in off the left would work well as they'd be able to shoot more effectively, and give the wingbacks space to run into.  I wouldn't have played them that way initially, but it would be dangerous for opponents if they did.

I have the idea that Shankland is a bit of a Harry Kane in that he can play just as well at 10 as at 9.  Vargas scoring was a surprise, but then I don't remember him being given much time at centre forward in the past.

[the jambo-rocker]

1 hour ago, footnotes said:

Reading the match report from the game against St. Mirren made me think that Hearts were playing the formation that Brazil used in the '90s to early '00s.  It was a 2-2-2-2 through the middle, plus two cyborg-like wingbacks - Roberto Carlos and Cafu.  It's great to watch and quite balanced with the 2 defensive midfielders and 2 creative midfielders ahead, but your wingbacks will be knackered! 

Looking at the highlights, maybe Spittal coming in off the right and Dhanda coming in off the left would work well as they'd be able to shoot more effectively, and give the wingbacks space to run into.  I wouldn't have played them that way initially, but it would be dangerous for opponents if they did.

I have the idea that Shankland is a bit of a Harry Kane in that he can play just as well at 10 as at 9.  Vargas scoring was a surprise, but then I don't remember him being given much time at centre forward in the past.

Can't argue with that. Be interesting to see who can slip in and out. Kingsley doesn't have the legs anymore which leaves Salazar Forrester should be fine on the other side.

In terms of Shankland I've always thought that, which is why his assists are still helping his lack of goals and potentially gives him a decent few years yet if he can't run.

Vargas as been pretty much in that role compensating for Ginnelly who did that beforehand for a while.  Be interesting to see if he uses Wilson more for that. I've always had a personal attachment to the idea that Oda could do the same role rather than having him out wide because he's not bad on the shoulder and actually not got bad numbers for expectations for him.

I've thought this season we've got a lot of creativity but need a few runners/receivers to use the American football term to compliment them.

Edited Tuesday at 15:59 by the jambo-rocker

[Sortmeout]

Great result for the Jambos tonight and sitting up there with Chelsea and Fiorentina at the top of the conference league. Good start for the new manager.