Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 1 minute ago, sparky88 said: Agreed. It's too simplistic to say that FPTP stops extremist parties being elected. What FPTP does is create gigantic parties full of different factions -those extreme points of view are hiding within those large parties. Take the BNP. There's now quite a few BNP policies adopted by the Tories but the BNP is dead as an electoral entity. Farage put a blokey face to these policies, called his party UKIP/Brexit Party then basically gifted the Tories their 80 seat majority in 2019. As if to prove this point, former UKIP councillors have become current Tory MPs. There's a frightening graphic doing the rounds I'll see if I can find it Look at that, a NF poster from the 70's. The Tory part of today have adopted all of those, as mentioned above Patel is mental for the death penalty and that's the only one missing. You make a good point above. Mixu too, I'm sorry for being rude I don't mean to be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: Look what happens. In a country like the UK, 3% of the vote, less than a million votes, would get you about 20 seats in WM under PR. You now have a voice. Maybe you increase it to 5% next time you get 30 odd seats. Respectability, a regular TV presence, a voice. Under FPTP you don't get any of that with your 3 or 5%. I'm not saying that's a better outcome, its just true. Incredibly naive. Farage got all of that and more without a single seat in WM. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: Incredibly naive. Farage got all of that and more without a single seat in WM. Yeah with the help of the British establishment. It wasn't a coincidence he was on Question Time about 35 times having never been elected as an MP or his party ever having a single MP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 28 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: That's so true, prior to about 2015 nobody ever moaned about the EU. You just didn't hear it mentioned at all except the occasional farmer or fisherman. That was created by the right wing media, with incredible success. Again, naive. Some form of UKIP/Brexit party have been around electorally since the mid 90's. Leave has polled as high as 56% way back in 2010 and 2012. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 18 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: Again, naive. Some form of UKIP/Brexit party have been around electorally since the mid 90's. Leave has polled as high as 56% way back in 2010 and 2012. It was a complete irrelevance a lot more recently than the 90's, we live in the same world, you know that's true the same as I do because of your lived experience. Some form of anti-EU party has probably been around since the day we joined the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Let me get this straight, people are arguing politics with Pep..? Fucksake! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: It was a complete irrelevance a lot more recently than the 90's, we live in the same world, you know that's true the same as I do because of your lived experience. Some form of anti-EU party has probably been around since the day we joined the EU. We could always just go by actual polls m80. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: We could always just go by actual polls m80. Mate you live in a different world to me if anybody ever discussed leaving the EU in your presence more than about five to eight years ago. Polls for support for the death penalty would be virtually identical, even higher support actually, but nobody ever discusses it and it hasn't been a live political issue for over half a century. Until Priti Patel obviously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: Mate you live in a different world to me if anybody ever discussed leaving the EU in your presence more than about five to eight years ago. Aye m8, it's all me, Nigel and Aaron ever talk about when we're down the boozer. 5 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: Polls for support for the death penalty would be virtually identical, even higher support actually, but nobody ever discusses it and it hasn't been a live political issue for over half a century. Until Priti Patel obviously. I've actually had quite a few discussions about the death penalty with others. Usually after an execution in the US, or a particularly horrific crime is committed here. "Peados ? 'Angings too good fur thum" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted December 27, 2020 Author Share Posted December 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: Aye m8, it's all me, Nigel and Aaron ever talk about when we're down the boozer. I've actually had quite a few discussions about the death penalty with others. Usually after an execution in the US, or a particularly horrific crime is committed here. "Peados ? 'Angings too good fur thum" Do you see it discussed on TV, in electoral campaigns? When was the last time a major political party in the UK even mentioned it in a manfiesto? Sixty years ago? Its a completely dead issue and has been for decades. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Priti Patel has brought the death penalty back on to the agenda in an FPTP system. Damn that PR letting extremists in again! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 9 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. That its not a live political issue, its completely dead. The same as EU membership was until five years ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 12 hours ago, oneteaminglasgow said: What exactly is your masters in, @Carnoustie Young Guvnor? Caddying For The Stars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: That its not a live political issue, its completely dead. The same as EU membership was until five years ago. If you think the question of EU membership wasn't a live political issue until five years ago, then your research skills are suspect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 minute ago, The Skelpit Lug said: If you think the question of EU membership wasn't a live political issue until five years ago, then your research skills are suspect. Really? So tell me when a review of our EU membership was mentioned in the manifesto of a major political party prior to 2015. Go..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: Really? So tell me when a review of our EU membership was mentioned in the manifesto of a major political party prior to 2015. Go..... Labour's 1974 election manifesto promised a referendum on membership of the EEC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said: Labour's 1974 election manifesto promised a referendum on membership of the EEC. So forty years, and one year after we joined. Thanks for your confirmation. It was a dead issue, a non-issue in British politics which nobody talked about and was not a vote winner, until the EU announced new tax evasion legislation (which comes into effect next week funnily enough) then the right wing media made it so. Now here we are. That was five years ago, during our referendum six years ago they were able to tell us UK membership means EU membership and nobody questioned it as EU membership wasn't even an issue. NS said this might happen, and was laughed at by everybody. The EU referendum was only ever to heal the rift in the Tory party in the first place, it wasn't actually about the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 25 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: Really? So tell me when a review of our EU membership was mentioned in the manifesto of a major political party prior to 2015. Go..... Erm, you asked when a review was mentioned prior to 2015. 1974 fits your request. You seem quite angry, lighten up, it's Christmas, the time of good cheer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted December 28, 2020 Author Share Posted December 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said: Erm, you asked when a review was mentioned prior to 2015. 1974 fits your request. You seem quite angry, lighten up, it's Christmas, the time of good cheer. And the answer was over four decades earlier, months after we joined. Thus illustrating my point perfectly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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