Music streaming plafforms

[Pocketman]

what do folks use snd what recommendations would you give? Apologies if this has been covered before (I did a quick search) but my free Apple Music trial is about to expire and am not sure whether to go with the £9.99 per month subscription. I like it and use it a lot but I am quite lazy with these things. I have dabbled with Amazon Music but found that a pain; I have the free Spotify app on my phone but I prefer the Apple navigation. I do make use of ahem, torrent sharing platforms from time to time, but am happy to subscribe to something given the amount of music I listen to. 

Beyond those I have mentioned (and maybe Google Play?), is there any platform that P&Bers would heartily recommend? I am also starting to buy more vinyl and maybe as I get older that will be the way I go, but currently I still like to know what has "landed" that particular week. 

all suggestions welcomed. Cheers. 

[Homer Thompson]

13 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

what do folks use snd what recommendations would you give? Apologies if this has been covered before (I did a quick search) but my free Apple Music trial is about to expire and am not sure whether to go with the £9.99 per month subscription. I like it and use it a lot but I am quite lazy with these things. I have dabbled with Amazon Music but found that a pain; I have the free Spotify app on my phone but I prefer the Apple navigation. I do make use of ahem, torrent sharing platforms from time to time, but am happy to subscribe to something given the amount of music I listen to. 

Beyond those I have mentioned (and maybe Google Play?), is there any platform that P&Bers would heartily recommend? I am also starting to buy more vinyl and maybe as I get older that will be the way I go, but currently I still like to know what has "landed" that particular week. 

all suggestions welcomed. Cheers. 

Google Music was really good. They recently switched that off and moved everyone to Youtube Music ... which is shit

HTH  

[amidst-tundra]

Not really a music streaming platform, but I tend to use Bandcamp. Artists get decent pay, most streaming sites require millions of listens to generate about £100, but Bandcamp tends to be pretty niche, I suppose if the artist is big enough they probably make a decent amount of cash from other streaming platforms. I don't mind YouTube music, some of the compilations people put up can be pretty good, too bad they don't integrate the playlist which most people put up on the main YouTube app.

[Detournement]

The revenue arguments against streaming services don't really hold up. 

Streaming services are giving the labels record revenue. The problem is the labels aren't sharing the cash. And even at the peak of the CD era how many British musicians were actually making a good living due to record sales? I doubt it was more than 1000, possibly far fewer.

 

 

[L. Brilliant]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

The revenue arguments against streaming services don't really hold up. 

Streaming services are giving the labels record revenue. The problem is the labels aren't sharing the cash.

What do you base that on?  I don't think it's correct.  I think the price per stream paid to the owner, whether that's label or publisher and whether that is also the artist or not, is known to be very low.  Basing that on the royalty statements I get myself - and I repeat it's price per stream I mean, not claiming to be a big hitter.

The problem is that artists, whether it's directly or through labels, give their music away to these platforms and don't collectively bargain for a fairer value.  I don't really think it's down to the consumer to then find some way of rectifying that though, so have no qualms about people using Spotify or that, like I do myself (it's convenient).

3 hours ago, amidst-tundra said:

Not really a music streaming platform, but I tend to use Bandcamp. Artists get decent pay, most streaming sites require millions of listens to generate about £100, but Bandcamp tends to be pretty niche

I think Bandcamp is really good as well, quite myspacey in a good way.  I feel like it should be more streamy, and I imagine there's an app that would let you play more varied stuff together?  But I don't have any space to install anything anyway.  

As a user, I would probably recommend Spotify and I do pay the tenner monthly.  As someone very minorly invested in returns for 'artists' I'd say fill your boots torrenting stuff, but when you think something's particularly good buy something off the band.  For me that'll be vinyl in rare cases or a t shirt or whatever.  I'm not going to cart CDs around and I've probably already got a wav file...  

[Detournement]

9 hours ago, L. Brilliant said:

What do you base that on?  I don't think it's correct.  I think the price per stream paid to the owner, whether that's label or publisher and whether that is also the artist or not, is known to be very low.  Basing that on the royalty statements I get myself - and I repeat it's price per stream I mean, not claiming to be a big hitter.

The problem is that artists, whether it's directly or through labels, give their music away to these platforms and don't collectively bargain for a fairer value.  I don't really think it's down to the consumer to then find some way of rectifying that though, so have no qualms about people using Spotify or that, like I do myself (it's convenient).

I think Bandcamp is really good as well, quite myspacey in a good way.  I feel like it should be more streamy, and I imagine there's an app that would let you play more varied stuff together?  But I don't have any space to install anything anyway.  

As a user, I would probably recommend Spotify and I do pay the tenner monthly.  As someone very minorly invested in returns for 'artists' I'd say fill your boots torrenting stuff, but when you think something's particularly good buy something off the band.  For me that'll be vinyl in rare cases or a t shirt or whatever.  I'm not going to cart CDs around and I've probably already got a wav file...  

Streaming companies return $11 billion to the rights holders. That's a lot of money.

It comes down to how many streams you think should be enough to generate a living wage? To me 50,000 streams a year globally isn't a lot, it's far less listening time than an obscure band who did a Peel session in the 90s would receive. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

5 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Streaming companies return $11 billion to the rights holders. That's a lot of money.

 

And most of that goes to a select few musicians not the millions on Spotify or whatever. It’s actually probably worse than your claim of 1000 or so musicians making a living from records.

Very few musicians have made a tonne of cash from selling music alone tbf. Couple that with the industry being shafted now with touring out the window for the foreseeable then you can see why streaming is not a great deal for musicians.  The industry is pretty fucked at the moment but there are plenty niche indie labels still punting out good stuff. You don’t see most of them on streaming sites though, wonder why.

[Detournement]

30 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

And most of that goes to a select few musicians not the millions on Spotify or whatever. It’s actually probably worse than your claim of 1000 or so musicians making a living from records.

Because those artists are getting the vast, vast majority of the streams in the same way Robbie Williams, Spice Girls etc got the majority of sales in the 90s. The difference now is that below the big artists the remaining wee bit of the pie is now cut much thinner as there are many more current recording artists due to technology but also because it's never been easier to access older music. 

[L. Brilliant]

The price per stream is very low either way - and it's the same whether you're Celine Dion or Billy Bin Juice.  The streaming giants make massive profits, because what punters actually pay per stream is obviously not as low.  But I don't really expect them to do anything other than keep as much as they can get away with, I blame the artists for giving it away and then complaining afterwards.

I feel pretty strongly that older acts feel wrongly entitled to an income off their music, because they once made one - and they then accrue big production costs to make a record with no guarantee that it's good.  A track or bundle of tracks is really only 'worth' what someone is willing to pay for it, and most consumers don't care whether it cost £0 to make in an attic or £50k at Air Studios. The entitlement distorts the debate IMVHO.  But, if you want someone to keep doing it, and you want them to have a budget, buy something from them - bandcamp is worth exploring.

 

But the question was about streaming recommendations.  Spotify is good for me, there are things missing but the selection is still vast.  Playlists and so on are convenient both for organising what you like already and for finding things through others.  I think there will be a trend though, that no-hopers pay to be streamable on these platforms, next big acts with backing, while middling acts look for better value by staying off and directly selling instead (bandcamp is only one example).

 

[RiG]

15 hours ago, Mr X said:

Google Music was really good. They recently switched that off and moved everyone to Youtube Music ... which is shit

HTH  

100% agree with this. Google Play Music was great as a music "locker" and although I didn't use it for streaming having been forced onto YouTube Music I can confirm that the latter is a steaming pile of shite. It's clearly not ready and doesn't offer anything close to feature parity with Google Play Music and I genuinely cannot believe a company as huge as Google could make such a balls up.  Avoid. 

Of the other "main" streaming services I'd be inclined to go with Spotify. It's pretty easy to navigate (unlike YTM) and you always get offers for free trials so you could seek one of those out and give it a bash. Tidal is another option but that is perhaps more for audiophiles. Amazon Music interface I find pretty "clunky" but if you are a Prime member you get a wee discount every month and there is a HD music option as well for a few pounds more. No experience of Apple Music. Bandcamp is a good "ethical" suggestion as it claims to pay artists a fairer share of revenue.

If you are looking for a music "locker" replacement for Google Play I use ibroadcast. It can be a bit confusing to navigate but you can stick all your music into the cloud and then stream it to your phone or tablet wherever you have an internet connection.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

43 minutes ago, L. Brilliant said:

The price per stream is very low either way - and it's the same whether you're Celine Dion or Billy Bin Juice. 

 

Didnt realise Wunfy had branched out into performing arts. 

[amidst-tundra]

12 hours ago, L. Brilliant said:

I think Bandcamp is really good as well, quite myspacey in a good way.  I feel like it should be more streamy, and I imagine there's an app that would let you play more varied stuff together?  But I don't have any space to install anything anyway.  

I wish they'd provide a playlist function, I just tend to download stuff to FLAC, stick it on a SD card and play through PowerAmp. But I use Bandcamp for stuff like underground metal and weird ambient music. Doesn't seem to be much pick up in more popular genres.
There was a third party app that allowed Bandcamp streaming, but it was ropey and became abandonware after a while.

[punk_dfc]

100% agree with this. Google Play Music was great as a music "locker" and although I didn't use it for streaming having been forced onto YouTube Music I can confirm that the latter is a steaming pile of shite. It's clearly not ready and doesn't offer anything close to feature parity with Google Play Music and I genuinely cannot believe a company as huge as Google could make such a balls up.  Avoid. 

Of the other "main" streaming services I'd be inclined to go with Spotify. It's pretty easy to navigate (unlike YTM) and you always get offers for free trials so you could seek one of those out and give it a bash. Tidal is another option but that is perhaps more for audiophiles. Amazon Music interface I find pretty "clunky" but if you are a Prime member you get a wee discount every month and there is a HD music option as well for a few pounds more. No experience of Apple Music. Bandcamp is a good "ethical" suggestion as it claims to pay artists a fairer share of revenue.

If you are looking for a music "locker" replacement for Google Play I use ibroadcast. It can be a bit confusing to navigate but you can stick all your music into the cloud and then stream it to your phone or tablet wherever you have an internet connection.

I liked Google Play Music for the music locker ability. I like being able to upload my own music and integrate with my streaming library. I'm not typically a big Apple fan but I gave it a shot with the forced move to YouTube music and I've been impressed.

[RiG]

1 hour ago, punk_dfc said:

12 hours ago, RiG said:

100% agree with this. Google Play Music was great as a music "locker" and although I didn't use it for streaming having been forced onto YouTube Music I can confirm that the latter is a steaming pile of shite. It's clearly not ready and doesn't offer anything close to feature parity with Google Play Music and I genuinely cannot believe a company as huge as Google could make such a balls up.  Avoid. 

Of the other "main" streaming services I'd be inclined to go with Spotify. It's pretty easy to navigate (unlike YTM) and you always get offers for free trials so you could seek one of those out and give it a bash. Tidal is another option but that is perhaps more for audiophiles. Amazon Music interface I find pretty "clunky" but if you are a Prime member you get a wee discount every month and there is a HD music option as well for a few pounds more. No experience of Apple Music. Bandcamp is a good "ethical" suggestion as it claims to pay artists a fairer share of revenue.

If you are looking for a music "locker" replacement for Google Play I use ibroadcast. It can be a bit confusing to navigate but you can stick all your music into the cloud and then stream it to your phone or tablet wherever you have an internet connection.

I liked Google Play Music for the music locker ability. I like being able to upload my own music and integrate with my streaming library. I'm not typically a big Apple fan but I gave it a shot with the forced move to YouTube music and I've been impressed.

Sounds like iBroadcast could be an option for you then if you decided on something other than Apple and prefer to simply stream your own music library. It's not as easy to navigate as Google Play Music but it's free, you can chuck as much of your own music in it as you like and then you can then listen to it wherever you are (pretty much).

Edited January 20, 2021 by RiG

[punk_dfc]

Sounds like iBroadcast could be an option for you then if you decided on something other than Apple and prefer to simply stream your own music library. It's not as easy to navigate as Google Play Music but it's free, you can chuck as much of your own music in it as you like and then you can then listen to it wherever you are (pretty much).

It looks a great service but I do like a mix of stuff from a streaming service and stuff from my own collection (obscure stuff that's not on iTunes and live stuff). Don't think ibroadcast has a streaming service?

[RiG]

59 minutes ago, punk_dfc said:

10 hours ago, RiG said:

Sounds like iBroadcast could be an option for you then if you decided on something other than Apple and prefer to simply stream your own music library. It's not as easy to navigate as Google Play Music but it's free, you can chuck as much of your own music in it as you like and then you can then listen to it wherever you are (pretty much).

It looks a great service but I do like a mix of stuff from a streaming service and stuff from my own collection (obscure stuff that's not on iTunes and live stuff). Don't think ibroadcast has a streaming service?

No it doesn't. Could be something they have planned for the future but it's unlikely to materialise anytime soon.

[coprolite]

I have deezer because i had 3 months free on a new phone and am shite at post-trial cancellation.

It's ok. Catalogue is fairly extensive and has a lot of non mainstream stuff. You can download stuff or stream. The "flow" thing seems to be some sort of algorithm generated playlist and has come up with some recommendations that I'd not have found otherwise. I don't know how that compares to other services because i've not tried them. I think i pay 9.99 a month for the download facility. 

No idea what the artists or Songwriters get. For those whose album i wouldn't have bothered with, they get more than they would have. 

[L. Brilliant]

https://www.nme.com/news/music/gary-numan-says-he-was-paid-37-from-a-million-streams-2860258

[Pocketman]

On 21/01/2021 at 09:46, coprolite said:

I have deezer because i had 3 months free on a new phone and am shite at post-trial cancellation.

It's ok. Catalogue is fairly extensive and has a lot of non mainstream stuff. You can download stuff or stream. The "flow" thing seems to be some sort of algorithm generated playlist and has come up with some recommendations that I'd not have found otherwise. I don't know how that compares to other services because i've not tried them. I think i pay 9.99 a month for the download facility. 

No idea what the artists or Songwriters get. For those whose album i wouldn't have bothered with, they get more than they would have. 

£9.99 pm seems the standard price for every music stream/download platform whereas it largely varies between £5.99 and £9.99 for movie stream sites......

[Al B]

Slightly off-topic but as it was touched on earlier, here's the answer to the question. First number is the earnings per stream, 2nd number is how many streams you need to earn £1, and the 3rd number is how many streams you'd need every hour to make minimum wage. Bear in mind also that this is total revenue if you own 100% of the rights. If you are an artist signed to a label then you get around 20% of this (which is then subsequently split between however many people are in your band/group), and then a songwriter would get around 15% on top of this.

Amazon - £0.009 - 111 - 970

Tidal - £0.007 - 143 - 1246

Apple Music - £0.0054 - 185 - 1615

Deezer - £0.0045 - 222 - 1938

Google Play - £0.0044 - 272 - 1981

Spotify - £0.0028 - 357 - 3114

Pandora - £0.0016 - 625 - 5450

Youtube - £0.0012 - 833 - 7267

So if you are the songwriter in a 5-member band signed to a label on a relatively standard deal, you are earning £0.0005 per stream on Spotify. The non-songwriting members are earning £0.0001 per stream.

Also bear in mind that this is after the repayment of any debt to the label such as the cost to record the album etc etc.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Al B