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Why Don't people invest in Scottish Football?


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On 21/05/2022 at 19:48, Gregory said:

It’s not all to do with TV money. 

it’s the way the SFA have set up the ownership rules. We are being blocked by our own people. We are far too traditional for the modern game and we are being left behind. 

apparently there have been lots of interest and talks about investing into Scottish football. There are many leagues in Europe just like ours that are far more successful and attractive to players. And that’s what it comes down to. Attracting players. 
 

check this out below very very interesting read. 
 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/rangers-celtics-dominance-can-ended-21694907.amp

 

 

Aye there was nothing in that article that backed up the notion that this shyster could end the duopoly of the Old Firm. Taking the team with the lowest budget in the league to 5th is no mean feat, but I think Livi managed that a few seasons back iirc. Nobody would suggest that this was a harbinger of any type of regime change. He didn't say why increased transfer revenue would make the league more competitive. You're getting money, but you're losing your best players, and often to the very teams you're trying to beat to a title. 

Also, I'm with @Luddite in feeling a bit queasy when people start talking about football as an opportunity for strategic investors. I'm also glad that the SFA (or SPFL) stands in the way of people having a controlling share in multiple teams. Rather than being stewards of one particular team and in service to the fans of that club (stop laughing, fellow Jags fans) they would be making decisions for their whole portfolio, and your club might be 3rd or 4th in importance behind a more "profitable enterprise" (boak). I remember when a similar organisation was close to taking over Thistle and there was chat of turning us into a feeder club for Barnsley. That's what we'd be signing up for with these types of investors. 

I think Scottish football can definitely be marketed better, but the purpose of this has to be for the benefit of clubs, supporters and communities. I don't want it marketed just so that we can attract some sportswashing arseholes or capitalistic opportunists. 

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22 minutes ago, velo army said:

Aye there was nothing in that article that backed up the notion that this shyster could end the duopoly of the Old Firm. Taking the team with the lowest budget in the league to 5th is no mean feat, but I think Livi managed that a few seasons back iirc. Nobody would suggest that this was a harbinger of any type of regime change. He didn't say why increased transfer revenue would make the league more competitive. You're getting money, but you're losing your best players, and often to the very teams you're trying to beat to a title. 

Also, I'm with @Luddite in feeling a bit queasy when people start talking about football as an opportunity for strategic investors. I'm also glad that the SFA (or SPFL) stands in the way of people having a controlling share in multiple teams. Rather than being stewards of one particular team and in service to the fans of that club (stop laughing, fellow Jags fans) they would be making decisions for their whole portfolio, and your club might be 3rd or 4th in importance behind a more "profitable enterprise" (boak). I remember when a similar organisation was close to taking over Thistle and there was chat of turning us into a feeder club for Barnsley. That's what we'd be signing up for with these types of investors. 

I think Scottish football can definitely be marketed better, but the purpose of this has to be for the benefit of clubs, supporters and communities. I don't want it marketed just so that we can attract some sportswashing arseholes or capitalistic opportunists. 

There's a subtle, but crucial, distinction between a a gambler who's "found a system" and a gambler who's just hit a lucky streak and the later is far more common than the former. 

Transfer windfalls happen. Apparently Hearts are set to make a few million off Aaron Hickey going from Bologna to Arsenal which is good news for Hearts but nobody sensible would use that as an argument for fan ownership or suggest that Hearts can rely on that kind of money coming in regularly.

The rules that they're complaining about in the article are there to stop Scottish clubs becoming simply feeder clubs of bigger English ones and with the financial supernova across the border that's more important now.

They're also the rules that stopped Mike Ashley from controlling Rangers 2.0 although whether that's a good thing or not is somewhat subjective

 

 

Edited by topcat(The most tip top)
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On 21/05/2022 at 19:48, Gregory said:

It’s not all to do with TV money. 

it’s the way the SFA have set up the ownership rules. We are being blocked by our own people. We are far too traditional for the modern game and we are being left behind. 

apparently there have been lots of interest and talks about investing into Scottish football. There are many leagues in Europe just like ours that are far more successful and attractive to players. And that’s what it comes down to. Attracting players. 
 

check this out below very very interesting read. 
 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/rangers-celtics-dominance-can-ended-21694907.amp

 

 

Not allowing dual ownership is great, genuinely can't think why I would want my club to be owned by someone who owned multiple bigger clubs already?  Some of these clubs have their entire history gone due to the ownership structure e.g. Red Bull clubs. 

All for the big dream that you might get a Wednesday/Friday sesh in Ljubljana.  

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4 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

There's a subtle, but crucial, distinction between a a gambler who's "found a system" and a gambler who's just hit a lucky streak and the later is far more common than the former. 

Transfer windfalls happen. Apparently Hearts are set to make a few million off Aaron Hickey going from Bologna to Arsenal which is good news for Hearts but nobody sensible would use that as an argument for fan ownership or suggest that Hearts can rely on that kind of money coming in regularly.

The rules that they're complaining about in the article are there to stop Scottish clubs becoming simply feeder clubs of bigger English ones and with the financial supernova across the border that's more important now.

They're also the rules that stopped Mike Ashley from controlling Rangers 2.0 although whether that's a good thing or not is somewhat subjective

 

 

Exactly, and there wouldn't be a transfer windfall large enough to be able to change the competitive environment of Scottish football.

And to the second point, the quoted article read like a propaganda piece. The fella is complaining because he can't create the footballing hedge fund he wants to and is framing it (as capitalists throughout history have always done) as backward people standing in the way of progress. 

Obviously there would be a short term giggle at Rangers fans crying into their pints if Ashley took over, but it would have been a terrible thing and would have cemented our league's status as an absolute joke. They would have been a feeder club for Newcastle and their identity as a club would have all but been erased (insert obvious joke here). I wouldn't wish that on any fan, but less altruistically it would threaten all of our clubs. When I heard that we were going to become a feeder club for Barnsley I was ready to pack it in. I couldn't support a club whose raison d'etre was now to provide players to fucking Barnsley. 

AC Milan or a La Liga outfit might change my mind, but certainly not fucking Barnsley. That's a massive riddy.

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On 21/05/2022 at 14:48, Gregory said:

It’s not all to do with TV money. 

it’s the way the SFA have set up the ownership rules. We are being blocked by our own people. We are far too traditional for the modern game and we are being left behind. 

apparently there have been lots of interest and talks about investing into Scottish football. There are many leagues in Europe just like ours that are far more successful and attractive to players. And that’s what it comes down to. Attracting players. 
 

check this out below very very interesting read. 
 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/rangers-celtics-dominance-can-ended-21694907.amp

 

 

Reading that article was fucking depressing.

I enjoy throwing the tag "zombie club" at Sevco fans as much as anyone, but in reality all clubs are zombie clubs to some degree.  Sure, there's 11 guys kicking a ball on some grass with white markings, and they wear the same color shirts and the same badge with the same team name and watched by a crowd of people singing the same songs in the same building its taken place in for 100 or so years, but beyond that surface stuff there's not much substance of the original football club rattling around inside it's corporate shell (or aspiring corporate shell).

Edited by Luddite
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Reading that article was fucking depressing.
I enjoy throwing the tag "zombie club" at Sevco fans as much as anyone, but in reality all clubs are zombie clubs to some degree.  Sure, there's 11 guys kicking a ball on some grass with white markings, and they wear the same color shirts and the same badge with the same team name and watched by a crowd of people singing the same songs in the same building its taken place in for 100 or so years, but beyond that surface stuff there's not much substance of the original football club rattling around inside it's corporate shell (or aspiring corporate shell).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
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13 hours ago, velo army said:

Aye there was nothing in that article that backed up the notion that this shyster could end the duopoly of the Old Firm. Taking the team with the lowest budget in the league to 5th is no mean feat, but I think Livi managed that a few seasons back iirc. Nobody would suggest that this was a harbinger of any type of regime change. He didn't say why increased transfer revenue would make the league more competitive. You're getting money, but you're losing your best players, and often to the very teams you're trying to beat to a title.  

Yep, we have used stats based recruitment and coaching from the season we won League 1. Seems to have worked out pretty well, found a few players that have excelled using it too 

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On 23/05/2022 at 11:16, topcat(The most tip top) said:

OK Barnsley got relegated but they've still got AS Nancy who  <checks notes> got relegated to the 3rd tier as well and , lowest budget in the league, KV Oostend who followed up their 5th place finish by dropping back to 12th but at least they didn't get relegated

You wouldn't know whether they got relegated or not the way that Belgian League works.

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On 19/04/2022 at 11:27, footnotes said:

Maybe those who already invest in Scottish football aren't going about it in the right way.

I've been reading Football Hackers by Christoph Biermann.  It's about clubs investing in the use of data and the success that can bring.  One insight is that  more money spent on players' wages is a better predictor of success than money spent on transfer fees.  And a spreading resources across the squad is preferable to having a few star players.  And it can be a waste of money attempting to develop youth when bigger clubs already have the best young players on their books.  (I don't agree with those last two points)

It talks at length about metrics such as Expected Goals and Packing.  The former gives clubs a better idea of how lucky or unlucky they have been in their results (as does ranking goal difference vs points total) so that managers such as Jack Ross at Hibs aren't sacked unnecessarily.  Packing helps identify players who have the cutting edge, who can be retained on better contracts or signed more cheaply if other clubs don't realise it.

Some interesting ideas in the book.  I think any Scottish club having regular access to the money of European group stages won't need any further investment in order to challenge for the league, but they maybe need to invest what they already have more smartly in order to reach that stage.  Or else it's a Sugar Daddy needed to pump-prime clubs.

Partly agree.  A 'sugar daddy' is only useful in situations where a club has a potentially large fan base, which just needs re-invigourating.  No point in wee clubs signing players that bigger clubs should be, blocking their opportunities, then the whole thing collapsing in a season or two.

Regarding stats, etc - the BBC have a couple of super articles on the footballing origins of this at the moment - see link, and link within the article itself:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61648608

 

Also: i'm reading 'Only A Game?' by Eamon Dunphy, a 1976 book detailing football in the old English Second Division from within the dressing room.  Superbly insightful about the psychology of teams and footballers (not much to do with this thread, though!).

Sorry for interrupting!

Edited by RabidAI
Attention-seeking behaviour (ASB).
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  • 10 months later...
On 07/03/2021 at 11:20, Darren44 said:

Question

We all want Scottish Football back to being competitive at least in Domestic game and Europe. But it never ever be. While lack of investment is on going. Scotland Outside two Glasgow clubs. Have Two Edinburgh Clubs, Two Dundee Clubs and Aberdeen. Strangely unlike Glasgow clubs local Business are unwilling to invest at the same level as the Two Glasgow Clubs.

While do clubs outside the two Glasgow clubs struggle so much to attract investment both local and worldwide. In terms of Football having Seven clubs competitive is good for the game.

The reason people don't invest in Scottish football is simple - there are only two religions capable of making it viable, and they are already taken.

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Give me pishy Scottish football over the sanitised tourist league down south any day. The fact they sell half and half scarves and people actually buy them and wave them in the stadium instantly means it’s a fucking shite league

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