Election 2021 Debates

[DMCs]

3 hours ago, Highland Capital said:

Glen Campbell asked a very naive question about Scotland printing it's own currency there.  The Faroe Islands use the Danish kroner but print their own notes as well that are only legal there.  Even if we kept the pound tie or untied to the rUK in a currency union, there'd surely be a way round it.

It's not notes that are the issue. Sterlingisation means no Scottish central bank therefore no direct control of the money supply. The policy is just daft and the SNP should really have the courage to move away from it.

That's politics though and what matters is the opinion polling on the issue.

[carpetmonster]

3 hours ago, Highland Capital said:

Glen Campbell asked a very naive question about Scotland printing it's own currency there.  The Faroe Islands use the Danish kroner but print their own notes as well that are only legal there.  Even if we kept the pound tie or untied to the rUK in a currency union, there'd surely be a way round it.

Ecuador does similar - they use the US dollar as their official currency , but mint their own coins. Not bills tho, for whatever reason. 

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

1 hour ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Right on cue, The Guardian...https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/04/internal-polling-suggests-labour-heading-for-defeat-in-hartlepool-byelection 

"Labour sources said they were in “huge trouble” in Hartlepool and also in danger of losing control of Sunderland and Durham councils for the first time in half a century. " 

Aye, some fightback by Starmer. 

What part of the Scottish Labour Death Spiral are UK Labour in?

Is Kieth even as smooth an operator  as Iain Gray?

i did enjoy the last minute of the debate when Glenn Campbell took the chance to ask nicola what is going to be happening in the next few weeks with covid restrictions. The general acceptance that everyone else on stage was a sideshow, no hoper.

[Baxter Parp]

It's not notes that are the issue. Sterlingisation means no Scottish central bank therefore no direct control of the money supply. The policy is just daft and the SNP should really have the courage to move away from it.
That's politics though and what matters is the opinion polling on the issue.

The currency plan includes the creation of a central bank whilst using the pound and before the creation of our own currency.

[BigDoddyKane]

Our own currency and central Bank is most sensible option imo

Edited May 5, 2021 by BigDoddyKane

[DMCs]

1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

7 hours ago, DMCs said:

It's not notes that are the issue. Sterlingisation means no Scottish central bank therefore no direct control of the money supply. The policy is just daft and the SNP should really have the courage to move away from it.
That's politics though and what matters is the opinion polling on the issue.

The currency plan includes the creation of a central bank whilst using the pound and before the creation of our own currency.

Which is what Sturgeon should have said in the debate rather than say nonsense like you can do QE under sterlingisation.

54 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

Our own currency and central Bank is most sensible option imo

Depends on credit rating and other factors. Like whether we are prepared to run consistent budget surpluses like the Scandinavians.

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

9 hours ago, DMCs said:

It's not notes that are the issue. Sterlingisation means no Scottish central bank therefore no direct control of the money supply. The policy is just daft and the SNP should really have the courage to move away from it.
That's politics though and what matters is the opinion polling on the issue.

The currency plan includes the creation of a central bank whilst using the pound and before the creation of our own currency.

I've mentioned this before many times on here, re the creation of a central bank.

The Scottish Government created The Scottish National Investment Bank last November with funds of £2 Billion Pounds Sterling, this would evolve into our Central Bank.

As per the Copenhagen Criteria we cannot present a joining intention application to the EU if we are tied to another currency, as per Lithuania with the Russian Rouble, so we would create our own currency during the application process.

Edited May 5, 2021 by SandyCromarty

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, BigDoddyKane said:

Our own currency and central Bank is most sensible option imo

Both are necessary on applying to rejoin the EU and I have set out what's been achieved so far for a Central Bank in my earlier post.

However as per the Copenhagen Criteria there are other major factors to be taken into account before the EU application eligibility process can begin, for instance we have to show that we can preserve Democratic governance and Human Rights and have a functioning market economy with the ability to withstand competition within the single market

[Baxter Parp]

I've mentioned this before many times on here, re the creation of a central bank.
The Scottish Government created The Scottish National Investment Bank last November with funds of £2 Billion Pounds Sterling, this would evolve into our Central Bank.
As per the Copenhagen Criteria we cannot present a joining intention application to the EU if we are tied to another currency, as per Lithuania with the Russian Rouble, so we would create our own currency during the application process.

As I've mentioned before many times, there is nothing in the accession criteria that demands or even mentions an independent currency.

[SandyCromarty]

4 hours ago, Pato said:

You mention this often but you've been corrected before, it's 2 billion over 10 years. So at the end of 10 years (the 2030s) it'll have 2 billion pounds put into it. It's a start and that's good but it's got a long way to go before its capitalised to the extent it can function as a bond issuing central bank/LOLR.

I understand but the main point I make is that it is a Scottish Government Bank separate from other Scottish Banks printing the pound, the intention is obvious.

[SandyCromarty]

5 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

5 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

I've mentioned this before many times on here, re the creation of a central bank.
The Scottish Government created The Scottish National Investment Bank last November with funds of £2 Billion Pounds Sterling, this would evolve into our Central Bank.
As per the Copenhagen Criteria we cannot present a joining intention application to the EU if we are tied to another currency, as per Lithuania with the Russian Rouble, so we would create our own currency during the application process.

As I've mentioned before many times, there is nothing in the accession criteria that demands or even mentions an independent currency.

You are correct in that eight countries have retained their own currency, the uk was the ninth.

Denmark has negotiated an opt out from the Euro, the other seven are fully expected to adopt the Euro once the have fulfilled the criteria for doing so. Only the UK and Denmark had euro opt out clause, the others who joined in 2004 and 2007 had no such clauses. 

But Scotland has the following problem.

The Westminster Government and The Bank of England have made it quite clear that an Independent Scotland will not be allowed to use the Pound Sterling as it's currency.

So how do we proceed?

To join the EU we have to join the ERM, to have a currency tied to a non EU member would not be acceptable to the EU.

We have to introduce our own currency

The SNP have also made it known that as an Independent country they will apply for EU membership.

Part of that application is  that Scotland will adopt the Euro as have other new countries as I explained above.

I am well aware that senior SNP personnel have insisted that will use a Scottish Pound tied to the Bank of England but as I have said this is impossible and I don't know for the life of me why they insist upon it., the Eu have Baltic countries which were treated as Russian satellite countries but have had to give up financial alignment with the Rouble for obvious reasons.

[Saltire]

18 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

You are correct in that eight countries have retained their own currency, the uk was the ninth.

Denmark has negotiated an opt out from the Euro, the other seven are fully expected to adopt the Euro once the have fulfilled the criteria for doing so. Only the UK and Denmark had euro opt out clause, the others who joined in 2004 and 2007 had no such clauses. 

But Scotland has the following problem.

The Westminster Government and The Bank of England have made it quite clear that an Independent Scotland will not be allowed to use the Pound Sterling as it's currency.

So how do we proceed?

To join the EU we have to join the ERM, to have a currency tied to a non EU member would not be acceptable to the EU.

We have to introduce our own currency

The SNP have also made it known that as an Independent country they will apply for EU membership.

Part of that application is  that Scotland will adopt the Euro as have other new countries as I explained above.

I am well aware that senior SNP personnel have insisted that will use a Scottish Pound tied to the Bank of England but as I have said this is impossible and I don't know for the life of me why they insist upon it., the Eu have Baltic countries which were treated as Russian satellite countries but have had to give up financial alignment with the Rouble for obvious reasons.

Sterling is an internationally traded currency. At the point of independence we would retain our share of Sterling and can decide whether to retain it or covert it to any number of other internationally traded currencies or our own. We can have a central bank or a currency board managing a basket of currencies/ gold reserves. The UK can't prevent us from using the pound but we would be tied in to the RUK rates of interest etc until such times as we move to another currency.

[Burning Barns]

2 hours ago, Saltire said:

Sterling is an internationally traded currency. At the point of independence we would retain our share of Sterling and can decide whether to retain it or covert it to any number of other internationally traded currencies or our own. We can have a central bank or a currency board managing a basket of currencies/ gold reserves. The UK can't prevent us from using the pound but we would be tied in to the RUK rates of interest etc until such times as we move to another currency.

This is, pretty much, the ALBA policy on currency and the creation of a Scottish Central Bank.  

However, ALBA were excluded from the so-called "Leaders' Debates" for no discernible reason.  Ross, Sarwar and Rennie aren't even leaders of Scottish political parties, but of course, they had to be there.  Glorified branch convenors.  

[Baxter Parp]

3 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

The Westminster Government and The Bank of England have made it quite clear that an Independent Scotland will not be allowed to use the Pound Sterling as it's currency.

Quite apart from the fact that two BoE governors have said that sterlingisation would be the best solution for both countries and the decision to deny the option was a political one, not an economic one, the BoE and Westminster can't stop any country from using Sterling as it's a freely tradeable currency.

[yoda]

They obviously can't stop you from using Sterling but it would be stupid to use it. There's no point in bumping your gums about needing economic autonomy from the UK and then being at the mercy of the BoE MPC as you try and do your own thing.

Sterlingisation is, at best, a very short term measure. Even then, I'd much rather an independent Scotland wasn't in the position to rely on such a measure. But I have my reservations about that.

[Baxter Parp]

14 minutes ago, yoda said:

Sterlingisation is, at best, a very short term measure.

That's the plan.

[Burning Barns]

12 minutes ago, yoda said:

They obviously can't stop you from using Sterling but it would be stupid to use it. There's no point in bumping your gums about needing economic autonomy from the UK and then being at the mercy of the BoE MPC as you try and do your own thing.

Sterlingisation is, at best, a very short term measure. Even then, I'd much rather an independent Scotland wasn't in the position to rely on such a measure. But I have my reservations about that.

I totally agree.  I'd like to think the government and SCB would be working round the clock to get away from sterling ASAP in that eventuality.

[BigDoddyKane]

Sweden deosnt seem to be in any hurry to change to the euro, it had a referendum in 2003 but decided then not to change to euro.

Its maybe playing the wait and see game, I cant see the EU being able to put much pressure on them to change if they dont want to

[Baxter Parp]

4 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

Sweden deosnt seem to be in any hurry to change to the euro, it had a referendum in 2003 but decided then not to change to euro.

Its maybe playing the wait and see game, I cant see the EU being able to put much pressure on them to change if they dont want to

There is no mechanism or available sanction to force any EU country to use the Euro. The process is to be taken at the individual nation's pace.

[Antlion]

3 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

There is no mechanism or available sanction to force any EU country to use the Euro. The process is to be taken at the individual nation's pace.

People have been so brainwashed by anti-EU propaganda over the years that they cannot understand that the EU sees the Euro as a benefit to be gained, not a curse to be enforced on victimised member states.