Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, GHF-23 said:

The problem LTL has is he's never quite managed to phrase his pontifications in a way that hides the fact he's just stealing twitter threads from other, more notable bores and contrarians. That and he once said he would physically assault me for calling him a knobhead

He makes a guy with a reputation as an AI bot seem normal.

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire for centuries as did the Greeks, Serbs etc. The emergence of the modern nation state was more the issue with the Young Turks than a Muslim vs Christian issue. What they did in 1915 was a response to how ethnically homogenous Orthodox Christian states were being created in the Balkans out of what had previously been Ottoman territory, so they wanted a secular Turkish nation state rather than the traditional multiethnic Ottoman caliphate sort of approach.

So their attempted genocide of the Armenion people was just to compete as a cohesive and enlightened new nation with the West? 

Edited September 24, 2023 by welshbairn

[LongTimeLurker]

Worth bearing in mind how Ataturk's Turkey later on was all about creating a modern secular state rather than being Islamist. What the Young Turks did to the Armenians in 1915 was seriously out of order but if the Turks hadn't created their own modern nation state they could have lost huge parts of what is now Turkey in much the same way the Ottomans had lost almost all of the Balkans. The Greeks tried to take a huge chunk of western Anatolia at the end of WWI and Armenian nationalists were definitely after a huge chunk of eastern Anatolia.

[invergowrie arab]

[ICTChris]

8 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Or maybe you have swallowed one side of this conflict's propaganda hook, line and sinker? Would a group of Israelis need to be afraid of German authorities in the present day because of what happened in the 1940s?

 

This is not a valid comparison.

Azerbijan has bombed the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabakh, blockaded the territory to starve them and has now attacked them again. This is in the last two or three years. The atrocities committed happened in that timeframe as well. The destruction of Armenian cultural sites and heritage happened throughout the aftermath of the first war and the war in 2020. 

After the end of the 2020 war Azeris built a display of the bullet holed helmets of dead Armenian soldiers in the centre of Baku. They built re-enacted scenes of killed Armenians, complete with models made with exaggerated ‘racial features’ like something out of the 19th century. The Azeri President was photographed with them. I assume they are still there today.

The relationship between Azerbijan and the Karabakh Armenians is not in any way similar to the relationship between Israel and modern day Germany. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by ICTChris

[Sergeant Wilson]

They seem to have taken a lot of stuff down, but that park looks worth a visit.

[LongTimeLurker]

19 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

This is not a valid comparison...

You clearly did not understand the parallel I was making. All your posts on this topic make it sound as if it is all one way traffic on this issue and one side are the good guys and the other side are the bad guys. Reality is more complex than that. There used to be large Azerbaijani populations in Armenia proper during the Soviet era. They all got kicked out pretty much without exception. Nationalists will do that sort of thing regardless of the flag being waved and it is every bit as out of order when the Armenians do it as when the Azerbaijanis do it. What is universally recognised at the UN is that Nagorno-Karabakh is de jure part of Azerbaijan and that the Armenians had no right whatsoever to seize 20% of Azerbaijan militarily in the early 1990s. Just as Vlad needs to respect the 1991 internal Soviet borders if the current mess in Ukraine is going to be resolved so does Armenia and that is what is currently unfolding.

[GHF-23]

48 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 What the Young Turks did to the Armenians in 1915 was seriously out of order but

This is such a funny thing for someone who's desperate to be taken seriously to post 

[welshbairn]

4 hours ago, GHF-23 said:

 That and he once said he would physically assault me for calling him a knobhead

Because that's the important thing when we're discussing potential ethnic cleansing and genocide. Why are you here?

Edited September 24, 2023 by welshbairn

[GHF-23]

10 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Because that's the important thing when we're discussing potential ethnic cleansing and genocide. Why are you here?

It's a Scottish football forum, none of it's important man. Very strange thing to get upset about at 10PM on a Sunday 

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, GHF-23 said:

It's a Scottish football forum, none of it's important man. Very strange thing to get upset about at 10PM on a Sunday 

You seemed to just land on this thread to attack a particular poster with nothing to do with the subject matter, can't remember you showing an interest in the subject before.

[GHF-23]

Just now, welshbairn said:

You seemed to just land on this thread to attack a particular poster with nothing to do with the subject matter, can't remember you showing an interest in the subject before.

I was commenting on a series of terrible posts by an individual, in reply to another criticism of their posts. I included the quoted above as a fun (and true!) aside.

I have since only responded to a truly egregious post, which very much did minimise ethnic cleansing and genocide, and now to your tedious concern trolling. I'll continue to post how, where and to whom I like, unless the mods tell me otherwise. 

[welshbairn]

5 minutes ago, GHF-23 said:

I was commenting on a series of terrible posts by an individual, in reply to another criticism of their posts. I included the quoted above as a fun (and true!) aside.

I have since only responded to a truly egregious post, which very much did minimise ethnic cleansing and genocide, and now to your tedious concern trolling. I'll continue to post how, where and to whom I like, unless the mods tell me otherwise. 

No worries, I'll leave you to your off topic and preferably private bitchfest with Longtermlurker.

[GHF-23]

Just now, welshbairn said:

No worries, I'll leave you to your off topic and preferably private bitchfest with Longtermlurker.

God forbid something on this website be off-topic! Just for future reference had you not dug up a post from 4 hours ago which had been largely ignored and which had been followed by multiple further posts we'd be short 6 off-topic posts. Food for thought 

[GHF-23]

To make up for my vile crimes an on topic post,  I see the Canadian parliament gave a standing ovation recently to a veteran of the *check notes* Waffen-SS.* Good work all round guys.

*The invasion is a vile crime and in an ideal world Ukraine wins the war, before I get accused of being a Putin shill or some such 

[ICTChris]

A Finnish paper has published videos of Outin on holiday in Finland in the early 1990s. He was with his boss, then St Petersburg mayor Anatoly Sobchak. The video shows the party playing table tennis and darts and having a meal.

Almost comically banal stuff. Very odd watching it, maybe it’s a deep fake.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, GHF-23 said:

To make up for my vile crimes an on topic post,  I see the Canadian parliament gave a standing ovation recently to a veteran of the *check notes* Waffen-SS.* Good work all round guys.

*The invasion is a vile crime and in an ideal world Ukraine wins the war, before I get accused of being a Putin shill or some such 

Canada has a major problem with encouraging far right diaspora nationalists of various stripes. Canadian Khalistanis were in the news again recently after India assassinated a prominent one. That was shocking and a major crime, obviously, but as a separate point Canada's encouragement of Khalistanis deserves scrutiny. Jagmeet Singh is a principled left-leaning politician...except when it comes to Sikh nationalism. I remember listening to an interview of him on BBC Asian Network when he'd just become leader of the New Democratic Party in Canada. I was amazed to hear him voice support for the Khalistanis. The likes of murdering 329 innocent people on board a plane (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182) somehow still hasn't led to Khalistanis being rebuked by wider Canadian society.

Far right nationalism among the eastern European diaspora in Canada is well-known by this point. I came across this Republic Srpska arsehole recently, a Bosnian Serb trying to revise history and have his ethnic group reframed as victims rather than genocidaires:  https://twitter.com/malagurski Of course, he's Canadian. Then, aye, Ukrainian diaspora activism in Canada has always been of the far right, nationalist variety. Jewish groups have long complained about the Ukrainian-Canadian veneration of Ukrainian SS members but, again, wider Canadian society seems to be unmoved.

Edited September 25, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[LongTimeLurker]

Not that it hugely matters but Boris Malagurski is from Vojvodina rather than Bosnia. His best known film Weight of Chains featured Michael Parenti very heavily and was big into Yugonostalgia so calling him far right seems a bit odd. 

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Not that it hugely matters but Boris Malagurski is from Vojvodina rather than Bosnia. His best known film Weight of Chains featured Michael Parenti very heavily and was big into Yugonostalgia so calling him far right seems a bit odd. 

For me, his more recent work has made clear that his ostensible anti-imperialism is solely in service of his Serb chauvinism. 

[Guest]

The current deputy prime minister of Canada:

Quote

Chrystia Freeland knew for more than two decades that her maternal Ukrainian grandfather was the chief editor of a Nazi newspaper in occupied Poland that vilified Jews during the Second World War.

She originally denied this when it was reported, claiming it was Russian disinformation (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/freeland-knew-her-grandfather-was-editor-of-nazi-newspaper/article34236881/).

She was one of the Canadian politicians giving the standing ovation to the man who spent WW2 murdering Poles and Jews.

The task of aiding Ukraine's resistance to Russia needs ringfenced as a stand alone issue. There's a lot of folk trying to attach a secondary project to it, namely to revise history. Those folk are a nuisance.