Lowland League General Discussion

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, rockson said:

I suspect the point was that Darvel didn't make it to the LL. No West club has as yet.

Auchinleck's performance so far this season doesn't say much for their standards. 

I honestly think that Auchinleck's era of dominance is coming to an end. They lost the odd title previously but they always maintained the nucleus of their squad and recruited well. Key players like Leishman and Samson have left and Graham Wilson isn't getting any younger.

[Burnieman]

23 hours ago, ekok said:

Hi maybe result tonight against League Leaders Hearts B might suggest the demise of Clubs like Caledonian Braves is not as predictable as might seem.

Honestly the influx of Clubs from  East has been a total success,  with Kelty and Bonnyrigg leading the charge.

No doubt this will be replicated in due course by Clubs from the West.

Would be nice if a  tad of respect and humility was shown from our West colleagues,  so far no one has made the transition.  Last to the party being noisy neighbours is not a good look.

I'm not from the West, it's an observation that clubs from the West are likely to dominate the West/East play-offs for the next few years (if the format remains unchanged) now that the East big hitters are already in the LL/SPFL.  That will continue to strengthen the LL.

As such, clubs like Braves will struggle longer term to remain in the LL as more tier 6 clubs move upwards, that's fairly obvious.

I wouldn't have thought a draw at Hearts B is the benchmark to judge clubs on, albeit Hearts have started very well.

[ekok]

14 hours ago, Marten said:

Agreed with that, but it does go both ways. The Lowland League have consistently shown disrespect to the feeder leagues. The LL's behaviour towards all 3 feeders is disgraceful, yet ekok closes his eyes to that.

Ok so where will I start. How about the LL Board taking full responsibility for facilitating the formation of the WoSFL , unblocking the long time stasis of the Pyramid Working Group.  In full knowledge that by doing so would create the certainty of vastly increased competition for existing clubs, from teams in that new league.  Disgraceful. 

Agree should be more relegation/ promotion at bottom of LL, but Kelty, Bonnyrigg,  Tranent, Bo'ness , Linlithgow made it. Disgraceful. 

All the while LL ( and HL) not having at any point in time even one automatic promotion place into SPFL. Now that is disgraceful. 

[LongTimeLurker]

33 minutes ago, ekok said:

...All the while LL ( and HL) not having at any point in time even one automatic promotion place into SPFL. Now that is disgraceful. 

That issue isn't linked in any way with what happens between tier 6 and tier 5. The LL has the power to do the right thing in one context regardless of what happens in the other. Expanding the LL to 18 clubs could have been used to address the pro-rel logjam created by the formation of the WoS, but instead we got B teams and the whole Conference league fiasco. Who exactly amongst the brain trust that runs the LL at board level thought the Conference was going to be voted through the SFA AGM and was hence something they had to play along with rather than oppose from the outset? That's definitely up there on having a spectacular inability to properly read the room.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, ekok said:

Ok so where will I start. How about the LL Board taking full responsibility for facilitating the formation of the WoSFL , unblocking the long time stasis of the Pyramid Working Group.  In full knowledge that by doing so would create the certainty of vastly increased competition for existing clubs, from teams in that new league.  Disgraceful. 

Agree should be more relegation/ promotion at bottom of LL, but Kelty, Bonnyrigg,  Tranent, Bo'ness , Linlithgow made it. Disgraceful. 

All the while LL ( and HL) not having at any point in time even one automatic promotion place into SPFL. Now that is disgraceful. 

 

Where to start.

The LL got involved in the WoSFL formation in order to prevent the SJFA getting into the Pyramid which was on the cards as the WRJFA looked to be heading en-masse to tier 6.  So they got involved to protect their own interests (fair enough, a new WoSFL was more preferable than a WRJFA).  There was more to it than that, but that's a high level summary.

The LL use the SPFL promotion situation as an excuse to prevent more pro/rel from tier 6, when neither issue is remotely connected.  Two wrongs do not make a right.

Anyone with any awareness of the situation knows that the LL should be setting the example and bringing themselves into line with all the tiers below them and opening up pro/reg.  However, this has been done to death, the tipping point in voting is just about there to force this.

[ekok]

Sorry but the two issues are linked, at least for the clubs in the LL. That is the reality , like it or not. It is those clubs who have the ( voting) power to make change happen. The situation at the top of the LL is part of that discussion, again like it or not. As I have said before, having one automatic promotion place is demonstrably better than none. The pro- rel logjam was not created by the formation of the WoS, it was just made bigger.

 

[andy25]

16 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I honestly think that Auchinleck's era of dominance is coming to an end. They lost the odd title previously but they always maintained the nucleus of their squad and recruited well. Key players like Leishman and Samson have left and Graham Wilson isn't getting any younger.

Graham Wilson has left as well.

Signed for Darvel.

[lowenan]

No more b-teams, and one more relegation spot next season, should do it. That should make everyone happy.
 

For the other topic: Get one team relegated from the SPFL2 each season, without a playoff. Straight playoff for one spot between the LL and HL champions would be fine. 

[Marten]

28 minutes ago, ekok said:

Sorry but the two issues are linked, at least for the clubs in the LL. That is the reality , like it or not. It is those clubs who have the ( voting) power to make change happen. The situation at the top of the LL is part of that discussion, again like it or not. As I have said before, having one automatic promotion place is demonstrably better than none. The pro- rel logjam was not created by the formation of the WoS, it was just made bigger.

 

Absolutely bollocks. Those issues are NOT linked in any way. Any clubs who use the issue with the SPFL to stop a reasonable promotion/relegation with tier 6 are absolutely pathetic. Self-preservation at its finest. There is absolutely no excuse to not have at least 2 direct relegation spots, not with the amount of licensed clubs below the LL. Meanwhile the LL has absolutely useless sides that devalue the league, like the B-teams who should never have been admitted in the first place. Admitting these joke teams was a kick in the teeth for tier 6 clubs. And joke clubs like Broomhill deserve to go bust.

 

And then you have the nerve to often say the EoSFL, WoSFL & SoSFL should work with the LL to improve the pyramid. If you want to improve the pyramid, the LL is your enemy, not your friend. The LL is a stain on Scottish non-league football.

[ekok]

Leaving  B teams aside, if that was on the table, good chance of being agreed. Problem is getting SPFL to play ball

 

[ekok]

Just now, Marten said:

Absolutely bollocks. Those issues are NOT linked in any way. Any clubs who use the issue with the SPFL to stop a reasonable promotion/relegation with tier 6 are absolutely pathetic. Self-preservation at its finest. There is absolutely no excuse to not have at least 2 direct relegation spots, not with the amount of licensed clubs below the LL. Meanwhile the LL has absolutely useless sides that devalue the league, like the B-teams who should never have been admitted in the first place. Admitting these joke teams was a kick in the teeth for tier 6 clubs. And joke clubs like Broomhill deserve to go bust.

 

And then you have the nerve to often say the EoSFL, WoSFL & SoSFL should work with the LL to improve the pyramid. If you want to improve the pyramid, the LL is your enemy, not your friend. The LL is a stain on Scottish non-league football.

Ok made my case, you made yours, not sure vitriol is going to encourage change. 

[Marten]

10 minutes ago, ekok said:

Ok made my case, you made yours, not sure vitriol is going to encourage change. 

It's the LL who should change, not the ones lower in the pyramid. The LL are a disgrace of an organisation.

I genuinely wouldn't mind if clubs that are against more relegation from the LL or connect it to the SPFL issue would go bust. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Marten

[LongTimeLurker]

4 hours ago, lowenan said:

No more b-teams, and one more relegation spot next season, should do it. That should make everyone happy...

Three would be better, but the fly in the ointment is that it would be difficult to avoid having that mean automatic promotion for the SoS champion.

[lowenan]

Full time: University of Stirling 1 - 2 - Tranent

[Burnieman]

9 hours ago, ekok said:

Sorry but the two issues are linked, at least for the clubs in the LL. That is the reality , like it or not. It is those clubs who have the ( voting) power to make change happen. The situation at the top of the LL is part of that discussion, again like it or not. As I have said before, having one automatic promotion place is demonstrably better than none. The pro- rel logjam was not created by the formation of the WoS, it was just made bigger.

 

They're not in the remotest sense linked, it's being used as a blocker by the LL to protect it's founder clubs and every single person can see that.

[Shannon]

Surely by next season there will be a majority of clubs either used to 3 up and 3 down from East / West leagues and ex SPFL clubs that will be happy enough to vote for fairer relegation plus any other teams that already have been in favour of relegation for a few seasons.

 

Also I noticed Caledonian Braves really struggling this season although they do have Gretna and Edinburgh University coming up soon to pick up points from. I know they would be relegated to West Premier but I just can't see them being happy going into West Premier and then going into freefall down the West pyramid and the plug to be pulled on the club or am I being too cynical and will just find their level?

Also imagine the uproar if Talbot finished 4th bottom and thought were safe but Caledonian Braves finish bottom and then relegate Talbot or any other bigger West team. Will be something to watch out for with West Premier teams many fans won't even know about as will assume safe if finish 4th bottom.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Shannon

[Shannon]

12 hours ago, ekok said:

Sorry but the two issues are linked, at least for the clubs in the LL. That is the reality , like it or not. It is those clubs who have the ( voting) power to make change happen. The situation at the top of the LL is part of that discussion, again like it or not. As I have said before, having one automatic promotion place is demonstrably better than none. The pro- rel logjam was not created by the formation of the WoS, it was just made bigger.

 

Sad thing is your views are likely widely shared by Gala chairman amongst a number of other prominent committee/ board members in the Lowland League.

[johnmc80]

I think the lowland should open up relegation spots. I always have. I think most would agree on that. There should also be automatic promotion at the top end. But that isn’t going to happen anytime soon. You sre always going to end up with self preservation. Its not right. But how do you make turkeys vote for christmas? 
But wishing clubs to go bust is a tragic look. Its a game of football ffs!

[Pyramid Watcher]

21 hours ago, Marten said:

It's the LL who should change, not the ones lower in the pyramid. The LL are a disgrace of an organisation.

I genuinely wouldn't mind if clubs that are against more relegation from the LL or connect it to the SPFL issue would go bust. 

Like it or despise it, but don’t wish for teams to go bust, not a good look.

[Marten]

12 hours ago, Burnieman said:

They're not in the remotest sense linked, it's being used as a blocker by the LL to protect it's founder clubs and every single person can see that.

Yep, I'm sure they'd come up with a different excuse should the SPFL finally play ball. Don't get me wrong, I do agree that there should be automatic relegation from League 2 as well, but that's just not an excuse for not increasing relegation from the Lowland League. In my opinion, the SFA should take more control of the pyramid like the FA have done down south and force through better promotion/relegation. One auto-relegation spot from League 2 and at least 2 from the LL would be a big improvement already. Also, they can start with kicking out the B-teams after this season and replacing them by 2 more tier 6 clubs. Yes, I know only 16 member clubs are currently allowed and they only get away with 18 as these B-teams are "guest clubs", but I don't see why the league can't permanently go to 18 clubs without B-teams. Sadly, I know a lot of this is wishful thinking as I can't see the SFA upping their game any time soon, hence why I believe the LL should open up themselves, that will undoubtedly quicker increase the quality in the LL and give a stronger argument in any discussions with the SPFL.

And yes, I sound very harsh in my posts above, but that is because I do passionately believe in the principles of a pyramid. For all its faults, the pyramid has definitely shown to be a positive in Scotland but it still needs to improve. As the top non-league tier in the southern half of the country, the LL has definitely become more attractive. It's starting to become a good mix of ex-juniors, ex-SPFL, old senior non-league clubs & relatively new clubs. But the league lets itself down by its conduct. Allowing these B-teams in was an absolute disgrace. These teams have never added anything & only devalued the league. Also, not increasing relegation really let the league down. As said, there is no excuse really for any of that. That's why I sound so angry with the LL clubs blocking this using poor excuses. In my opinion, they are blocking improvement of the pyramid. And because I believe so passionately in the principle of the pyramid, that annoys me greatly.