10 man Livi v Well

[ol1vercloff]

The boo boys need to take a look at themselves. In previous seasons we would have went for a late win and fucked it. We were hopeless today and deserved a point maximum.

We also do not boo our own players. Leave that toxicity in the past where it belongs. Goncalves deserves the same support that the other players receive.

[Phillips455]

That game showed the weakness of VAR specifically when referring to the penalty incident.

 

From what I'm hearing after the match, the penalty was saved and Devlin ended up putting the ball in the net with his hand. However, during said check it saw that Kelly was way over the line. And therefore the goal is ruled out and the penalty re taken.

 

If this is correct then this was all the correct decisions. However all the fans were warned about was a potential hand ball check and that's it. I was wondering why the penalty would be retaken if they had already scored? Even the official channels were saying initially it was a Motherwell hand ball during the goal?

 

Real shame but I honestly doubt this will be a match to be remembered since it didn't contain or directly affect any of the ugly sisters (aka the VAR check at Fir park confirming an offside against celtic)

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

Funny how differently people see the game. Me and the people around me all thought Bahamboula was rotten today. Too often tried to do too much and lost the ball...his passing was woeful today and his touch wasn't there. Bradley was fantastic when he came on and going by his performance today I'd have him in the side ahead of Bahamboula when Nouble is fit. He's deceptively good in the air too which was a nice surprise.

Its maybe less seeing things differently and more just prioritising differently. I saw all you've put there and agree. There was that aimless dribble around the half way line Bahamboula went on first half which he ended with a misplaced pass to Boyes. The Motherwell attacker latched onto it and could've scored. I viewed that more as an abberation rather than characteristic of his performance today, though. Devlin was a real attacking threat for us first half and that was in part due to how well he was combining with Bahamboula on the overlap. Whereas Shinnie, while still showing some composure in possession and generally doing ok, I felt was a wee bit off the pace today.

Then with Bradley I thought he was great, aye. I just would've prioritised Omeonga as the half time introduction because he brings a bite I felt we were lacking without either of Pittman or Holt.

Edited January 2, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[LiviLion]

2 hours ago, Bobby_F said:

Livvy got a penalty?

From the anti-Livvy SPFL mafia?

Who got your red card today?

Livingston vs Motherwell, two teams on a fairly flat run of form, two penalties missed, some disappointing performances.

A St Mirren still looking like the most wound up on the thread. Never change, Robert.

[JD and associates]

ESTE JUEGO FUE LA PUTA DE TODOS LOS PARTIDOS DE FÚTBOL Y UN INSULTO PARA MIS OJOS. LIVINGSTON ESTOS HIJOS DE PUTA INÚTILES NO PODÍAN TOCAR A LA PUTA DE LANARKSHIRE Y ERAN UNA VERGUENZA VS ST MIRREN. Estoy horrorizado.

[ATLIS]

11 hours ago, ol1vercloff said:

The boo boys need to take a look at themselves. In previous seasons we would have went for a late win and fucked it. We were hopeless today and deserved a point maximum.

We also do not boo our own players. Leave that toxicity in the past where it belongs. Goncalves deserves the same support that the other players receive.

Goncalves deserves f**k all, he's had over 6 months to get to the standard required and he's so so far off it. 

[Guest]

Even if you don't care for Isma there's other factors. The booing is also effectively booing Martindale's decision to make the substitution. Anyone in the stadium so convinced they know better than Martindale to the point where they boo his decisions, they should rethink on that. There'll be teammates who like Isma personally, this is an integrated member of a tight-knit group, and those teammates will be annoyed by Isma being booed. It also creates a standard of "if we don't like how you perform we'll boo you individually" which isn't a useful pressure on the players. 

Then there's that folk don't even know why Martindale is making the substitution. It's quite possible he actually has intention to move the player on but recognises you need to put the player "in the shop window" a little, give the player some minutes, so it's easier to convince potential suitor clubs on the player. 

[hoobahabba]

Goncalves is a wage thief. Clearly no desire to contribute at this level or further his career. A poor signing. Having said that, booing him as he comes onto the pitch is unacceptable. 
 

Not a good team performance from us yesterday. We were missing the graft of Holt and Pittman. Shinnie and Sean Kelly are slow in the middle of the park and it meant that the Well players were finding space far too easily. Nouble is also a huge miss from the team at the moment. Bahamboula is our only other player who is capable of holding the ball up in the attacking third and he wasn’t getting anywhere against Penney. Thought Brucey did well given the lack of support. He’s cutting a frustrated figure out there at the moment. Boyes also looks a prospect. Certainly more composed than Ayo. Stephen Bradley had a solid debut and looking forward to seeing more of him.

There are things to be positive about but, overall, shite. Hoping to see an improved performance against County.

[ATLIS]

18 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

Even if you don't care for Isma there's other factors. The booing is also effectively booing Martindale's decision to make the substitution. Anyone in the stadium so convinced they know better than Martindale to the point where they boo his decisions, they should rethink on that. There'll be teammates who like Isma personally, this is an integrated member of a tight-knit group, and those teammates will be annoyed by Isma being booed. It also creates a standard of "if we don't like how you perform we'll boo you individually" which isn't a useful pressure on the players. 

Then there's that folk don't even know why Martindale is making the substitution. It's quite possible he actually has intention to move the player on but recognises you need to put the player "in the shop window" a little, give the player some minutes, so it's easier to convince potential suitor clubs on the player. 

In all honesty, why wouldn't someone boo Martindale bringing Isma on? I didn't do it but I agree with it to be fair. Martindale isn't infallible in his decision making, he often knows better than most and it works out but there's times he gets it wrong. 

Is it so wrong to boo an individual based on 10+ stinking performances without a single decent one? I'd argue it's probably a good standard to have, if it gets that bad then clearly you need to up your standards. No one is going to be interested in him at all based on any of these cameos, if anything it lessens the chance of someone wanting him. 

He's playing him because he has no other option, Nouble is injured, Guthrie is injured and Bruce was fucked at the end of the game. I'd honestly rather see someone like Shinnie up front instead though. Even off the bench Cancar would've done better. 

 

[ATLIS]

There was a few things I came away from yesterday thinking:

I'm so far out of love with this Livi team at the minute. Just cannot enjoy watching them, the football is shocking and we can't pick up a win since coming back. At times we look heartless and scared of working hard. 

We at least have a decent core of a few young players at the club, Boyes, Kelly and Bradley all look like very good players and could develop really well for us. The pain will be getting them to stay, but we should be making sure all of those get a longer 3-4 year deal soon

[LiviLion]

Just now, ATLIS said:

the football is shocking

The annoying this is that when we get the ball on the ground we're more than capable of passing our way up the park and look good doing so, but we just hoof it up rather aimlessly. Example being against St Mirren, a couple times we passed it through the midfield and got into a good position, but most of the game was high balls to Anderson up against Gallagher.

Doesn't help that we've got thick as f**k fans screaming "send it" and "get it up the park" as soon as someone makes a pass along the ground; same folk who shout the loudest when we inevitably lose the ball from a long punt.

[ATLIS]

2 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

The annoying this is that when we get the ball on the ground we're more than capable of passing our way up the park and look good doing so, but we just hoof it up rather aimlessly. Example being against St Mirren, a couple times we passed it through the midfield and got into a good position, but most of the game was high balls to Anderson up against Gallagher.

Doesn't help that we've got thick as f**k fans screaming "send it" and "get it up the park" as soon as someone makes a pass along the ground; same folk who shout the loudest when we inevitably lose the ball from a long punt.

Yeah exactly, I'd mentioned at the game that with Nouble on the park we seem to have a plan. At times yesterday there was no plan, it was just hoof it up and hope. 

There's definitely some offenders for the second part of your post up the back behind the home dugout, genuinely thinking about complaining to the club about one guy in particular. It's okay to have a moan sometimes but I've genuinely had to sit all season and listen to 90 minutes of moaning over and over. Same guy doesn't know about the offside/end of attack phase rules now either. 

[ol1vercloff]

1 hour ago, ATLIS said:

In all honesty, why wouldn't someone boo Martindale bringing Isma on? I didn't do it but I agree with it to be fair. Martindale isn't infallible in his decision making, he often knows better than most and it works out but there's times he gets it wrong. 

Is it so wrong to boo an individual based on 10+ stinking performances without a single decent one? I'd argue it's probably a good standard to have, if it gets that bad then clearly you need to up your standards. No one is going to be interested in him at all based on any of these cameos, if anything it lessens the chance of someone wanting him. 

He's playing him because he has no other option, Nouble is injured, Guthrie is injured and Bruce was fucked at the end of the game. I'd honestly rather see someone like Shinnie up front instead though. Even off the bench Cancar would've done better. 

 

Because the club have worked hard to build a good atmosphere around the place. That's reflected on the pitch. Booing a player almost certainly has a negative impact on them and their performance.

Can't believe that needs explained.

I think Goncalves was signed as an experienced pro to come on at the end and see us over the finish line with his knowledge of the game. Perhaps the signing hasn't worked, but that's no reason to boo our own player as they come on to the park.

Maybe a lot of our fans don't remember how negative the club was in the past because they're just too young. But the older heads that remember when the club wasn't in such a good place really need to have a word with themselves.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LiviLion said:

The annoying this is that when we get the ball on the ground we're more than capable of passing our way up the park and look good doing so, but we just hoof it up rather aimlessly. Example being against St Mirren, a couple times we passed it through the midfield and got into a good position, but most of the game was high balls to Anderson up against Gallagher.

The St Mirren performance was mitigated by playing with a man less during the key match stage either side of half time. Yesterday, it was a promising start that got interrupted by the penalties debacle. Composure and rhythm was then refound and the goal, although from a set piece, reflected a decent spell of play. Second half, Motherwell improved significantly and attacked far more. Livi looked very disjointed and I think only one chance was created, Stephen Kelly's shot from Bradley's cut back.

So I'd say in the last 4 halves of football (the Hibs match I'm just writing off entirely), only that second half yesterday was a proper shiter from the team. Long through passes to Anderson can be effective if its Stephen Kelly making the passes. Second half yesterday was, as you say, just speculative punts in his general direction mostly from our keeper or defenders. We don't want that.

[East Calder Lion]

Still fuming today about our ridiculous penalty taking record.  Why is our no:9 not taking penalties?  Any striker worth their salt wants the penalties,  look at Shankland for instance.   

Montano being our top scorer with 4 goals is also a concern.   

[EdinburghLivi]

17 minutes ago, East Calder Lion said:

Still fuming today about our ridiculous penalty taking record.  Why is our no:9 not taking penalties?  Any striker worth their salt wants the penalties,  look at Shankland for instance.   

Montano being our top scorer with 4 goals is also a concern.   

Martindale said Devlin scored 10/10 penalties in training and that's why he got the nod lol

I agree with you, by the way. Ridiculous that Anderson is yet to get a chance at one.

[Durnford]

I get what people re saying about Goncalves but simply put we don't know how he's been performing in training. Obviously he's been doing a lot more that falling on his ar5e whenever a defender comes close to him.

So far this season the only time I've seen him being relatively effective is when he was playing on the left wing. playing in the centre and he's totally ineffective particularly as a lone striker lacking that dramatic burst of pace to get away from his markers; this is the same issue we had with Jack Hamilton (the striker).

Effectively we really need a Van Veen type player - wonder if the 'Well would consider a straight swap?

 

[Durnford]

10 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said:

Martindale said Devlin scored 10/10 penalties in training and that's why he got the nod lol

I agree with you, by the way. Ridiculous that Anderson is yet to get a chance at one.

I have the fear that we get to a penalty shoot out in a cup game......

[ATLIS]

3 minutes ago, Durnford said:

I have the fear that we get to a penalty shoot out in a cup game......

You just know that'd be the one time we score 5/5  

[Durnford]

1 minute ago, ATLIS said:

You just know that'd be the one time we score 5/5  

And then you wake up....