National Conference League

[Pompey Blue]

4 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Earlier, I urged folk to write to clubs about this facade of a Pyramid system, and having done so myself, I've received a couple of replies.

As many here have recognised, the 42 clubs in the four SPFL set up aren't getting to vote for or against on the Conference introduction, it is a fait accompli as far as they are concerned. The L1/L2 clubs see the advantage of dropping into a funded league as the play off losing Club 42, rather than the farce which the LL has become. However, they see more negatives than positives in the suggestion, and don't accept the 'good for the national side' arguments.

For myself, as a fan, I'd hate to be watching 16 matches in a season against B sides: it'd be like a nightmare series of Challenge Cup matches in my mind. 

I still don't see what's in it for Lowland or Highland League clubs, and can't understand why they would support or accept this, but then again, I couldn't understand them allowing B sides in, in the first place.

There’s nothing in it for lowland league clubs but even less for the highland league ones. They would in effect be facing 7 southern clubs, that’s 14 gruelling unattractive away games in a season. How is travelling to Berwick on a miserable wet Tuesday night attractive to a club like Buckie? Why would any HL team want that grim and grizzly journey to East Kilbride in the middle of January? They’d also be kissing goodbye to all the highland rivalries built up over decades to instead play a bunch of reserve teams. The HL should as one be giving this atrocity the proverbial middle finger. 

[bobbydazzler]

Madness that you could finish 5th and end up getting promoted but could finish 6th and be relegated

[welshbairn]

Just now, Pompey Blue said:

There’s nothing in it for lowland league clubs but even less for the highland league ones. They would in effect be facing 7 southern clubs, that’s 14 gruelling unattractive away games in a season. How is travelling to Berwick on a miserable wet Tuesday night attractive to a club like Buckie? Why would any HL team want that grim and grizzly journey to East Kilbride in the middle of January? They’d also be kissing goodbye to all the highland rivalries built up over decades to instead play a bunch of reserve teams. The HL should as one be giving this atrocity the proverbial middle finger. 

The same applies to the Aberdeen u21s, I don't see what's in it for them either. The national part of the wheeze is a pretence.

[Burnieman]

6 minutes ago, Pompey Blue said:

There’s nothing in it for lowland league clubs but even less for the highland league ones. They would in effect be facing 7 southern clubs, that’s 14 gruelling unattractive away games in a season. How is travelling to Berwick on a miserable wet Tuesday night attractive to a club like Buckie? Why would any HL team want that grim and grizzly journey to East Kilbride in the middle of January? They’d also be kissing goodbye to all the highland rivalries built up over decades to instead play a bunch of reserve teams. The HL should as one be giving this atrocity the proverbial middle finger. 

Buckie Thistle already had a taste of it this season, traveling midweek to play Hearts B at Whitehill Welfare in the SPFL Trophy.  Imagine traveling on a Saturday to play Celtic B at a largely empty Airdrie,  hosting Aberdeen B the following week, then a trip to University of Stirling at an empty Forthbank. I bet it gets the pulses racing amongst the Buckie faithful.

[Pyramid Watcher]

20 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I don't see how a new league under the rules and structure of the SPFL (according to the Lowland League chairman), and involving promotion and demotion from and to it, can happen without a vote by SPFL members. According to the P&J/Mail article it will also go to a vote of SFA members which obviously includes them too.

The only vote will be at the AGM, the SFA need members approval to enable them to form a new league. Someone with a better grasp of the regs may correct me, or explain it better.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Pyramid Watcher

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Pyramid Watcher said:

The only vote will be at the AGM, the SFA need members approval to enable them to form a new league. Someone with a better grasp of the regs may correct me or explain it better.

A new league affiliated to the SFA needs signed of by a vote. No different than the WoSFL when it was created.

And just like the WoSFL,  a new league would face votes to alter existing inter-league agreements in order to find its place in the pyramid.

 

[Pyramid Watcher]

8 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

A new league affiliated to the SFA needs signed of by a vote. No different than the WoSFL when it was created.

And just like the WoSFL,  a new league would face votes to alter existing inter-league agreements in order to find its place in the pyramid.

 

I was along the right lines then

Thanks for the clarification on it.

[Redcar]

Of all the back-of-a-fag-packet, slavering, blinkered bonkersness of this ridiculous new league, the 10-team element surely tops it. Only 6 teams with anything worth playing for. 

And if it is coming in anyway, the season after next, the notion that LL clubs were 'blackmailed' into voting B teams in again or the Conference would start this year, makes those who voted 'yes' even more in need of growing a pair. Who wants to be in a club run by these self-serving wankers?

Strongly suspect that my club - Berwick - voted in favour of the B-teams (and therefore putting the conference off for a year) because they have a good budget for next season and fancy their chances of winning the LL as it stands, whereas if the conference came in next season, we wouldn't even be in it. Can just about understand that, but can't agree with this drivel. They've said nowt, though, so we might never know. 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Redcar

[Dundee Hibernian]

46 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Who did you contact and who responded?

These were private conversations via email with directors of two clubs I attend, and should remain so, but it shouldn't be too difficult to work out.

44 minutes ago, Cowdenleith said:

I am mystified at the continuing rage towards the itty bitty Lowland League clubs.

The whole concept of B teams eventually being allowed in the top 4 leagues can be binned by the might of the diddy SPFL clubs if they stick together, surely as simple as that?

The rage is possibly because they allowed to door to be opened to B sides, slamming it on the other clubs lower down the pyramid. And the meek acceptance by Chairman Brown and the majority of clubs in allowing themselves to be relegated in season 2024-25 may also have something to do with it.

As to the second part, I'm sure there will be a movement in the rules which will chnge the voting structure, or perhaps the bribes will grow larger in order to achieve the desired end result.

44 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I don't see how a new league under the rules and structure of the SPFL (according to the Lowland League chairman), and involving promotion and demotion from and to it, can happen without a vote by SPFL members. According to the P&J/Mail article it will also go to a vote of SFA members which obviously includes them too.

You'd think not, but they didn't get a vote on the clubs included in the LL's structure when it was introduced, as far as I recall. And are these articles not referring to the clubs in the present Tiers 5 - 10 (roughly 250 clubs) of which a certain level of SFA membership is required to vote?

[Dundee Hibernian]

55 minutes ago, Pompey Blue said:

There’s nothing in it for lowland league clubs but even less for the highland league ones. They would in effect be facing 7 southern clubs, that’s 14 gruelling unattractive away games in a season. How is travelling to Berwick on a miserable wet Tuesday night attractive to a club like Buckie? Why would any HL team want that grim and grizzly journey to East Kilbride in the middle of January? They’d also be kissing goodbye to all the highland rivalries built up over decades to instead play a bunch of reserve teams. The HL should as one be giving this atrocity the proverbial middle finger. 

For the SFA, that's a mere blip: they won't care if the HL clubs decline to take part, the make up of the league isn't important to them as long as it involves the B sides, two in particular. Hearts and Aberdeen are being used in the same way as the present LL clubs.

The final structure may involve 6 present LL clubs, it doesn't really matter to the SFA. They may, behind the scenes, be talking to clubs at levels down the lowland pyramid, outlining the attractiveness of the Conference as a way of opening up space in the tiers above.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Pompey Blue said:

There’s nothing in it for lowland league clubs but even less for the highland league ones. They would in effect be facing 7 southern clubs, that’s 14 gruelling unattractive away games in a season.

28 presumably in a 10 team league?

[Pyramid Watcher]

The funding model is all wrong in Scottish football. We have 42 clubs who receive all the money, and a pyramid below who receive virtually nothing, it’s lopsided, and without excusing the behaviour of the LL clubs, I can almost see why some may jump at the chance to pick up £40/£50k for appearing in a league. The SFA should have been concentrating on the financial distribution in their “review” instead of looking to appease 3/4 of the 42.. I do realise that the SPFL are a members organisation and that they control their money, but a bit of pressure from Maxwell and his cohorts wouldn’t go amiss.

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

Gatecrashing in here. I'm 100% against the Colt nonsense in the league completely. 

Our Leagues aren't perfect but one of the great things is the competitive nature of the lower part time level. That includes the junior clubs who've now got the opportunity to push on. 

Probably getting into conspiracy theory territory here but the continuation of making it harder for the ambitious, ex junior clubs or the current Lowland or Highland League clubs who've been spending money to progress their squad and facilities in a bid to make it into League 2 etc -has me convinced it's done to protect the current lower league sides scared of relegation out of League 2.

Even without the Colts, another league simply isn't required? One already exists below League 2 . 

I'm no doubt missing some key details in all this as I'm not close to it but I just don't see the point!

Edited April 27, 2023 by SJFCtheTeamForMe

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, SJFCtheTeamForMe said:

Probably getting into conspiracy theory territory here but the continuation of making it harder for the ambitious, ex junior clubs or the current Lowland or Highland League clubs who've been spending money to progress their squad and facilities in a bid to make it into League 2 etc -has me convinced it's done to protect the current lower league sides scared of relegation out of League 2.

To add to potential tinfoil hattery the SFA have currently paused accepting licensing applications while they rework and update the criteria. 

[Arthurlie1981]

2 minutes ago, SJFCtheTeamForMe said:

Gatecrashing in here. I'm 100% against the Colt nonsense in the league completely. 

Our Leagues aren't perfect but one of the great things is the competitive nature of the lower part time level. 

Probably getting into conspiracy theory territory here but the continuation of making it harder for the ambitious, ex junior clubs etc to gain promotion into that Divisions proper makes me absolutely convinced it's done to protect the current lower league sides scared of relegation as ice no doubt they've been complaining?!

Even without the Colts, another league simply isn't required? One already exists below League 2 . 

I'm no doubt missing some key details in all this as I'm not close to it but I just don't see the point!

I agree that there will be a part of this for L1/L2 clubs looking at Berwick, Cowdenbeath & East Stirlingshire and thinking we dont want a piece of that and if the conference get the go ahead will only have to beat 5 other teams to get promoted. For the OF, Hearts and Aberdeen they get to hoard onto players longer and start exerting pressure onto the the rest of the SPFL to open up for them to be promoted. 

And to answer and earlier point from the Cowdenbeath fan, the anger towards the LL clubs is that you all keep rolling over and getting you belly tickled and I will bet some ex SPFL clubs will be the first to apply to the Conference given their facilities leapfrogging over the get back to the SPFL.

The whole thing shows how shameful Scottish Football is and is not about making it the best product it can be but for making money for those at the very top.

[Nowhereman]

1 hour ago, SJFCtheTeamForMe said:

Gatecrashing in here. I'm 100% against the Colt nonsense in the league completely. 

Our Leagues aren't perfect but one of the great things is the competitive nature of the lower part time level. That includes the junior clubs who've now got the opportunity to push on. 

Probably getting into conspiracy theory territory here but the continuation of making it harder for the ambitious, ex junior clubs or the current Lowland or Highland League clubs who've been spending money to progress their squad and facilities in a bid to make it into League 2 etc -has me convinced it's done to protect the current lower league sides scared of relegation out of League 2.

Even without the Colts, another league simply isn't required? One already exists below League 2 . 

I'm no doubt missing some key details in all this as I'm not close to it but I just don't see the point!

So you think that the SFA's main interest is league two sides and that they are setting up a new league to protect them? Really?

[Shannon]

5 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

So you think that the SFA's main interest is league two sides and that they are setting up a new league to protect them? Really?

Nope but it is a great way for them to get more votes from League One and League Two sides for this dreaded Conference idea.

[Footballfirst]

2 hours ago, Redcar said:

Strongly suspect that my club - Berwick - voted in favour of the B-teams (and therefore putting the conference off for a year) because they have a good budget for next season and fancy their chances of winning the LL as it stands, whereas if the conference came in next season, we wouldn't even be in it. Can just about understand that, but can't agree with this drivel. They've said nowt, though, so we might never know. 

You are probably correct about how Berwick voted, but I think you are wrong about the reasoning being Berwick's chances of winning the LL.

If the Conference came in next season (2023/24), then the LL would lose Spartans, UOS, Tranent and EK to the Conference.  Berwick would then be one of the favourites for the LL title and promotion to the Conference league for the following season.

Keeping the status quo for another season means that your chances of winning the LL are reduced by the presence of Spartans, UOS, Tranent and EK, thus delaying the club's LL promotion ambitions by another year.

Alternatively, a top 4 finish next season might be the height of the club's ambitions, just like a Champions League place for an EPL side.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Footballfirst

[Arthurlie1981]

14 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

So you think that the SFA's main interest is league two sides and that they are setting up a new league to protect them? Really?

As Shannon points out above perhaps they will hope it greases the wheels when it comes to voting in the B teams or perhaps there is some loophole they think they have found that will make it easier to get B teams into the SPFL. The end game here is getting the B teams into the league, nothing more nothing less. Having the B teams play in the LL/Conference is not going to help them develop much more than already happens so what they want is to get they as high up the leagues as possible in a similar vain to Spain. 

The fact the SFA would prefer to have 4 B teams in the league over LL/HL/EOS/WOS/SOS teams shows exactly how they treat Scottish Football. Not 1 of them cares about the pyramid or integrity. We would be a laughing stock in the football world if anyone actually paid attention to Scottish football in the rest of the world.

[Dundee Hibernian]

21 minutes ago, Shannon said:

Nope but it is a great way for them to get more votes from League One and League Two sides for this dreaded Conference idea.

5 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

As Shannon points out above perhaps they will hope it greases the wheels when it comes to voting in the B teams ...

L1 and L2 sides have no vote in setting up the Conference: the SFA has made sure of this.