Butters Scotch Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ranana Ban said: Each to their own, but I think with the players we had we could have done better. The last 2 euros we will look back on as absolutely golden chances to do something. On 08/08/2024 at 10:24, 2426255 said: You don't accept that qualifying for the Euros helps grow the game in Scotland: Fair enough, I'm not trying to change your mind. Regardless it's clear it's important to the SFA for the two previously stated reasons: The terms in Clarke's contract were last known to be directly related to qualification (2021) for major tournaments with nothing to suggest that has changed. The income generated by qualification (2021, 2023). If you don't accept how the SFA are running the Scottish game with respect to the National Team or how the income generated from qualification is distributed you have the normal options: Do something about it (Protest). Withdraw your support (money, tickets, tv-subscriptions). Moan about it to anyone that will listen (online, radio). Similar to VAR the majority go for option-3. What are you planning ahead of the Nations League games in September? I get the importance of qualifying and the income generated from it as it could help fund new facilities or upgrade them, that's not in question. What I find it hard to believe - which is what you are suggesting here - is that our national team will improve all of a sudden. Where was the improvement from Euro 2020 to 2024? Teams like Georgia (in their first tournament) got to a knock out as did Slovakia, Slovenia so your numbers game theory holds no weight. Just because I am not happy with our current situation doesn't mean I'll stop supporting our national team, I'll continue going to the games and I won't be booing anyone but as this is a football forum, I will continue to share my viewpoints on here if that is okay with you? Clarke has had ample time to work with these groups of players to adapt his system once it was rumbled last year but failed to make the necessary changes. This in turn led to the stinking performances at the Euros where we genuinely had a great chance to get to the knockouts so I would like the SFA to look elsehwere now as I think Clarke is not the man to take this team forward anymore. To be clear, the main issues I have with Clarke are: Failure to integrate Ferguson into the first 11 despite his stellar performances in Italy Persisted with McGregor no matter what even though we had Gilmour who effectively did the same role as him A shortage of strikers so why wasn't Conway given minutes in the dead rubber/friendly games Christie playing great in the CM role in the EPL yet Clarke has decided against using him there, just kept with the tried and tested no matter how badly we were performing Stuck with a formation that had not worked for a very long time Repeated call ups of players like Greg Taylor who have done hee-haw, why wasn't doig introduced before now considering the level he is playing at. Not calling up Ryan Fraser despite us have absolutely no pace in the team or wingers Calling up Forrest at the Euros at the age of 33 then not playing him, just why? Failure to adapt to in-game quickly enough (Hungary game as prime example), also the Switzerland game where Ralston was getting torn apart so why not replace him Edited August 9 by Butters Scotch 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 23 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: Where was the improvement from Euro 2020 to 2024? World Cup-2022 qualifying compared to World Cup-2018 qualifying. Euro-2024 qualifying compared to Euro-2020 Qualifying. 22/23 Nation League compared to 20/21 Nations League. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 7 minutes ago, 2426255 said: World Cup-2022 qualifying compared to World Cup-2018 qualifying. Euro-2024 qualifying compared to Euro-2020 Qualifying. 22/23 Nation League compared to 20/21 Nations League. Think you misread, I said Euro 2020 to 2024, the actual Euros tournament not qualifying or nations league games. Also, bit of a stretch to compare this group of players to the group who were starting in the WC 2018 qualifying games 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, Butters Scotch said: Think you misread, I said Euro 2020 to 2024, the actual Euros tournament not qualifying or nations league games. Also, bit of a stretch to compare this group of players to the group who were starting in the WC 2018 qualifying games I did misread, however why discount the progress in between in terms of qualifying or the Nations League? Clarke isn't marked according to tournament performance by the SFA. The reasons why the SFA look upon qualification as the brief and the tournament as the cherry on top as well as it being unfair to shift the goalposts post-qualification has been discussed. With respect to WC-2018 qualification we finished 3rd with 18 points. In WC-2022 qualifying we finished 2nd with 23-points. Players involved in both campaigns were: Marshall, Gordon, Tierney, Robertson, Hanley, Cooper, McGinn, Fraser, Armstrong, and McGregor (10). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 5 minutes ago, 2426255 said: I did misread, however why discount the progress in between in terms of qualifying or the Nations League? Clarke isn't marked according to tournament performance by the SFA. The reasons why the SFA look upon qualification as the brief and the tournament as the cherry on top as well as it being unfair to shift the goalposts post-qualification has been discussed. With respect to WC-2018 qualification we finished 3rd with 18 points. In WC-2022 qualifying we finished 2nd with 23-points. Players involved in both campaigns were: Marshall, Gordon, Tierney, Robertson, Hanley, Cooper, McGinn, Fraser, Armstrong, and McGregor (10). The cherry on top We were produced a level of shite so strong that we broke records. I think when you go to the euros and stink the place out to such an extent then yeah you can switch the goalposts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 9 minutes ago, Ranana Ban said: I think when you go to the euros and stink the place out to such an extent then yeah you can switch the goalposts. Clarke is doing the job he has been asked to do by the SFA and meeting the threshold set in his contract (qualification for every other major tournament). Qualifying from the group at a tournament and making history is aspirational (cherry on top). What is the basis for fans shifting that to being mandatory post-qualification? If we were to pay off Clarke and look elsewhere do we change the contractual requirements or if Clarke remains should any contract extension be adjusted to require better tournament performance? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 56 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Clarke is doing the job he has been asked to do by the SFA and meeting the threshold set in his contract (qualification for every other major tournament). Qualifying from the group at a tournament and making history is aspirational (cherry on top). What is the basis for fans shifting that to being mandatory post-qualification? If we were to pay off Clarke and look elsewhere do we change the contractual requirements or if Clarke remains should any contract extension be adjusted to require better tournament performance? 1 hour ago, Ranana Ban said: The cherry on top We were produced a level of shite so strong that we broke records. I think when you go to the euros and stink the place out to such an extent then yeah you can switch the goalposts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, Ranana Ban said: The cherry on top We were produced a level of shite so strong that we broke records. I think when you go to the euros and stink the place out to such an extent then yeah you can switch the goalposts. Scotland failing to qualify from the group at a major tournament is comparable to Hearts or Aberdeen failing to get out of their Europa Conference League group or Celtic failing to get out of their Champions League group. For Scotland qualifying for a major tournament is our equivalent of winning the league and participation at tournaments is the cherry on top of that. There is more chance of the manager getting an extension than being sacked. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 33 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Scotland failing to qualify from the group at a major tournament is comparable to Hearts or Aberdeen failing to get out of their Europa Conference League group or Celtic failing to get out of their Champions League group. For Scotland qualifying for a major tournament is our equivalent of winning the league and participation at tournaments is the cherry on top of that. There is more chance of the manager getting an extension than being sacked. Is it tho? No it's not your talking about teams competing against teams way behind in resources so way behind in the players they can sign and put on the pitch. Scotland are not way behind Hungary or Switzerland in terms of players. I mean the manager made it look like we were, so I suppose you've made my point for me splendidly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 3 hours ago, 2426255 said: I did misread, however why discount the progress in between in terms of qualifying or the Nations League? Clarke isn't marked according to tournament performance by the SFA. The reasons why the SFA look upon qualification as the brief and the tournament as the cherry on top as well as it being unfair to shift the goalposts post-qualification has been discussed. With respect to WC-2018 qualification we finished 3rd with 18 points. In WC-2022 qualifying we finished 2nd with 23-points. Players involved in both campaigns were: Marshall, Gordon, Tierney, Robertson, Hanley, Cooper, McGinn, Fraser, Armstrong, and McGregor (10). Half of those parts players should now be at the peak of their career. They were really young then because the alternatives in their late twenties were mince. You don't mention all the dross in the other positions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Gaun yersel lads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, 2426255 said: Scotland failing to qualify from the group at a major tournament is comparable to Hearts or Aberdeen failing to get out of their Europa Conference League group or Celtic failing to get out of their Champions League group. For Scotland qualifying for a major tournament is our equivalent of winning the league and participation at tournaments is the cherry on top of that. There is more chance of the manager getting an extension than being sacked. Scotland failing to qualify is comparable to Denmark failing to qualify 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 15 minutes ago, Binos said: Scotland failing to qualify is comparable to Denmark failing to qualify I'm not sure it is, but either way Denmark did qualify our their group 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 11 minutes ago, Ranana Ban said: I'm not sure it is, but either way Denmark did qualify our their group It should be but we've long given up comparing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbob1875 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 4 hours ago, 2426255 said: Scotland failing to qualify from the group at a major tournament is comparable to Hearts or Aberdeen failing to get out of their Europa Conference League group or Celtic failing to get out of their Champions League group. For Scotland qualifying for a major tournament is our equivalent of winning the league and participation at tournaments is the cherry on top of that. There is more chance of the manager getting an extension than being sacked. No, it's nothing of the sort. That really is accepting mediocrity. To get out of the group only puts you in the top 16 of 50 odd countries its hardly an unreasonable expectation. If the euros was still a 16 team tournament the expectation would be that, with this team, we should qualify. We are in the top 16 of the Nations League after all. Uefa expanded the Euro Championships tournament and nations like Scotland are perfectly placed to finally get out of a group, while our similar sized (and smaller) rivals have jumped at the opportunity and excelled. We keep shitting the bed and just lowering our expectations to match the lowered requirements. The vast majority who watched us at the tournament, even those from other countries without emotional attachments to our team, saw it. Just because outcome bias exists as a concept doesn't mean it applies universally and always. Even if it did the objective statistical data tells the exact same story. We drew with a team playing for a draw and failed to get a shot on target in a must win game. Yet neither of these let downs even qualify as our worst performance of the tournament. It's obviously pathetic and it's beneath what this squad is capable of. Instead of taking responsibility Clarke abused and blamed a ref then hid. Poor tactics, poor leadership, time to go. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) 13 hours ago, Ranana Ban said: Scotland are not way behind Hungary or Switzerland in terms of players. That’s why our results against Switzerland and Hungary were a 1-1 draw and a bawhair 1-0 defeat. Good luck to anyone who can guarantee one goal results between roughly comparable elite football teams. Edited August 10 by adamntg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 4 hours ago, adamntg said: That’s why our results against Switzerland and Hungary were a 1-1 draw and a bawhair 1-0 defeat. Good luck to anyone who can guarantee one goal results between roughly conparable elite football teams. Well indeed. But back full circle results weren't great. Performance was absolutely terrible. Nobody can guarantee anything. But if that's how you set up a team for an international tournament then you don't deserve a third chance at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 Media reporting that James Morrison is the fall guy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 14 hours ago, immcinto said: You don't mention all the dross in the other positions. On you go then by all mean let's have a look at that 'dross' and compare to the present team. On 09/08/2024 at 09:58, 2426255 said: The playing squad available to Clarke compared to his predecessors has improved in some areas, declined in others and stayed the same in others. I'd agree overall the playing squad available is better. A number of the players Clarke has capped are a quality upgrade, most of them aren't. Players have also improved during Clarke's tenure which is partly good fortune, but also partly down to the manager. McTominay, McGinn and Ferguson are obvious examples where the players club fortunes have benefitted partly as a result of decisions taken by Clarke. There are three players that significantly improve the playing squad beyond what was available to previous managers: Hickey, Gilmour and Ferguson. I wouldn't disagree if you wanted to throw in Patterson, Adams or even Dykes into that mix. Beyond that though? What do we see for that increase in quality? Qualification for major tournaments instead of not qualifying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 2 hours ago, 2426255 said: On you go then by all mean let's have a look at that 'dross' and compare to the present team. What do we see for that increase in quality? Qualification for major tournaments instead of not qualifying. Think you forgot to switch your accounts mate, your talking to yourself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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