Steve Clarke

[PB1994]

15 hours ago, 2426255 said:

The latest contract that runs until 2026 was agreed before the start of Euro 2024 qualifying. Can they change the criteria/terms? 

I think it might be something looked at in future contracts, but not for this tournament. I think that's fair and reasonable.

Of course they can change the goals/expectations. I'm not sure they will however considering it is a World Cup qualifying campaign, which is much harder to do.

I haven't looked into it but I'm sure only teams that top the group qualify for the World Cup and then it is some second placed teams plus teams that do well in the Nations League that get into the playoffs? It's a tough ask to win the group and I doubt that would be the expectation. The goal will, obviously, be to qualify but I'm sure the expectation from the SFA will be to finish second and give it a good go through the playoffs. 

[2426255]

5 minutes ago, PB1994 said:

Of course they can change the goals/expectations. I'm not sure they will however considering it is a World Cup qualifying campaign, which is much harder to do.

I haven't looked into it but I'm sure only teams that top the group qualify for the World Cup and then it is some second placed teams plus teams that do well in the Nations League that get into the playoffs? It's a tough ask to win the group and I doubt that would be the expectation. The goal will, obviously, be to qualify but I'm sure the expectation from the SFA will be to finish second and give it a good go through the playoffs. 

Steve Clarke would have to sign a renegotiated contract and you'd expect his terms would need to be improved to reflect the increased expectations of the job. Is that fair?

[Bing.McCrosby]

2 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Steve Clarke would have to sign a renegotiated contract and you'd expect his terms would need to be improved to reflect the increased expectations of the job. Is that fair?

Why are you so concerned about this?

Genuinely do you support Scotland or only steve Clarke?

[2426255]

1 hour ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Why are you so concerned about this?

Genuinely do you support Scotland or only steve Clarke?

I support Scotland. I also support Steve Clarke - what he's done, what he's attempting to do. It's the reactionary and knee jerk elements of our fanbase that I've always taken issue with, but I accept that's just fans in general whatever team you support. I believe in the manager and the team, therefore I am willing to back them in adversity as I believe they'll come good and we'll get to where we want to go even if there are bumps along the way.

It's as simple as that. Not blind faith, we've strong evidence from the past 4 years. I also believe managers aren't always directly responsible for negative results even if it is their job to be accountable, so I'm more sympathetic generally towards them than most fans when results are going south even if I'm not a fan of the club.

Edited March 27 by 2426255

[Bing.McCrosby]

53 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I support Scotland. I also support Steve Clarke - what he's done, what he's attempting to do. It's the reactionary and knee jerk elements of our fanbase that I've always taken issue with, but I accept that's just fans in general whatever team you support. I believe in the manager and the team, therefore I am willing to back them in adversity as I believe they'll come good and we'll get to where we want to go even if there are bumps along the way.

It's as simple as that. Not blind faith, we've strong evidence from the past 4 years. I also believe managers aren't always directly responsible for negative results even if it is their job to be accountable, so I'm more sympathetic generally towards them than most fans when results are going south even if I'm not a fan of the club.

Who do you support more?

I agree there was some (not much) over the top stuff in the match thread. Mostly it was just criticism of a poor performance.

[2426255]

1 minute ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Who do you support more?

I agree there was some (not much) over the top stuff in the match thread. Mostly it was just criticism of a poor performance.

Scotland.

I wouldn't be that interested in Steve Clarke if he took a job in the English Championship for example, maybe keep an eye on him - but not actively follow him. I'd still follow Scotland in detail.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, 2426255 said:

Scotland.

I wouldn't be that interested in Steve Clarke if he took a job in the English Championship for example, maybe keep an eye on him - but not actively follow him. I'd still follow Scotland in detail.

Honestly that's not how it comes across.

[2426255]

Just now, Bing.McCrosby said:

Honestly that's not how it comes across.

[Mr Heliums]

27 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I'd still follow Scotland in detail.

What does that actually mean?

[Bing.McCrosby]

22 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

So as a Scotland fan, just concerning the team and not Steve Clarke.

You have seen the last 6 games and last night and have no concerns at all. Or anything we need to improve on?

[2426255]

13 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

So as a Scotland fan, just concerning the team and not Steve Clarke.

You have seen the last 6 games and last night and have no concerns at all. Or anything we need to improve on?

It's not keeping me awake at night, but I accept no-one would choose for it to unfold in this way. I don't have huge expectations going into the tournament though. Not because I don't believe in this team, but because we're in against good teams and it's a 3 game group - maybe that's the difference.

I agree with Clarke that you have to play against the better teams in order to improve, so that boxes up the France, England and Netherlands games. I'm happy to write them off as us trying to get better although I think we did well in parts in those games. We were okay against Spain away and although I was underwhelmed with the results against Georgia and Norway we made a lot of changes in personnel and system and we played okay.

Last night was the first game that I thought there's no mitigation and the players were off it - so that's basically strike one for me, the rest I'd give Scotland a pass on. That's how I look at it in terms of our performances and results in recent games and the context around them. It's also set against the backdrop of the progress we've made since 2019.

Edited March 27 by 2426255

[Bing.McCrosby]

6 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

It's not keeping me awake at night, but I accept no-one would choose for it to unfold in this way. I don't have huge expectations going into the tournament though. Not because I don't believe in this team, but because we're in against good teams and it's a 3 game group - maybe that's the difference.

I agree with Clarke that you have to play against the better teams in order to improve, so that boxes up the France, England and Netherlands games. I'm happy to write them off as us trying to get better although I think we did well in parts in those games. We were okay against Spain away and although I was underwhelmed with the results against Georgia and Norway we made a lot of changes in personnel and system and we played okay.

Last night was the first game that I thought there's no mitigation and the players were off it - so that's basically strike one for me, the rest I'd give Scotland a pass on. That's how I look at it in terms of our performances and results in recent games and the context around them. It's also set against the backdrop of the progress we've made since 2019.

So you think the last 7 games have been perfect in terms of management? Nothing we could have done just some players switching off.

Thats just unrealistic.

[2426255]

4 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

So you think the last 7 games have been perfect in terms of management? Nothing we could have done just some players switching off.

Thats just unrealistic.

I think they've been within reasonable limits. You can't expect perfect, which goes back to the point about expectations. Steve Clarke is logical in his decision making, can be creative from time to time and that's all I'm looking for.

I suppose, it's only fair to ask you what more you are expecting from him as our manager - just better results?

Edited March 27 by 2426255

[Bing.McCrosby]

2 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I think they've been within reasonable limits. You can't expect perfect, which goes back to the point about expectations. Steve Clarke is logical in his decision making, can be creative from time to time and that's all I'm looking for.

I suppose, it's only fair to ask you what more you are expecting from him as our manager - just better results?

Well yes, recent results certainly. Im looking for him to be more exansive and get us playing on the front foot in games like last night. And controlling and winning them comfortably. We looked clueless going forward against a very poor team.

He said himself its was a game they had to win to get the confidence back.

I was going into this euros thinking theres a decent chance we can do this and get through the groups. That confidence is definitely slipping away.

[2426255]

6 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Well yes, recent results certainly. Im looking for him to be more exansive and get us playing on the front foot in games like last night. And controlling and winning them comfortably. We looked clueless going forward against a very poor team.

He said himself its was a game they had to win to get the confidence back.

I was going into this euros thinking theres a decent chance we can do this and get through the groups. That confidence is definitely slipping away.

I don't think we'll ever agree on the results angle. Are we expansive? not last night but the brand of football is one of the points of evolution for the team generally. The team have bounced back well from disappointments in the past (Euro-2020, Ukraine) and so I'd rather assume the positive, but each to their own. There are worse things than going in with lowered expectations. 

Edited March 27 by 2426255

[Elgin Macca]

I've said on here before I think under Steve Clarkes reign its been 2 steps forward 1 step back normally. I'm hoping this period has just been one of the small steps back and I hope/think we will kick on again in June

[Skyline Drifter]

20 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Obviously i've got no idea what the SFA's metrics success are

 

19 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

We shouldn't. And if I was the SFA, I'd be making it clear that qualification for the Euros is the minimum expectation and progression from the group is the stretch goal, in terms of judging Stevie Clarke's performance.

What does this actually mean though?  It's typical HR buzzword territory but what are the consequences for not achieving it and the rewards for doing so. What about mitigation? If this isn't all set out in advance it doesn't mean anything and it's just ambition stuff that still needs judged on its merits as the contract approaches potential renewal date.

At the start of this campaign, I'm not sure qualification should have been the minimum expectation, though it was certainly a realistic aim. Are we saying if he doesn't achieve it then the contract can be cancelled or something? Does he trigger an extension or bonus by achieving it? What if we need a point in the last game to qualify after a reasonably successful campaign (say we don't get the 2nd goal in Norway) and then McGinn gets himself red carded five mins into the last game v Norway and suddenly we're up against it outwith the control of the manager. We put in a decent 85 mins with 10 men but lose a heartbreaking deflection in the last minute. Thanks very much Stevie but you've failed in our metric time to try someone else?

It's fine for the SFA committee / Ian Maxwell to set realistic targets and talk to Clarke about what they expect. I don't see that kind of thing as a contractual issue though.

[No_Problemo]

We were very unlucky not to get something from Spain away, the only complaint after the game and Clarke said this too was that we didn’t keep the ball well enough.

Since then we have played England, France and Netherlands and have clearly tried to go out and control games to a far greater extent.

Against Germany I think we will see more of a mix of the two styles, as I’m assuming that’s why Clarke has been working on it. If we can mix our best stuffy defensive work as shown against Spain, while being better on the ball at times then…

Last night was pish, but I don’t overly get the doom and gloom. I’m pretty confident we’ll turn up come the opening game - as long as we have close to our strongest team available. 

[Jaggy McJagface]

18 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

We were very unlucky not to get something from Spain away, the only complaint after the game and Clarke said this too was that we didn’t keep the ball well enough.

Since then we have played England, France and Netherlands and have clearly tried to go out and control games to a far greater extent.

Against Germany I think we will see more of a mix of the two styles, as I’m assuming that’s why Clarke has been working on it. If we can mix our best stuffy defensive work as shown against Spain, while being better on the ball at times then…

Last night was pish, but I don’t overly get the doom and gloom. I’m pretty confident we’ll turn up come the opening game - as long as we have close to our strongest team available. 

I’m not sure we’re guaranteed to turn up for the opener.

In the Hampden games at the last Euros, the Ukraine playoff and the England friendly (although I appreciate this wasn’t a competitive match) it felt like we were playing the occasion as much as the game and it got the better of us. Hopefully that’s the type of performance that’s behind us but I’d be wary of another big game disappointment.

[2426255]

Just now, Jaggy McJagface said:

I’m not sure we’re guaranteed to turn up for the opener.

In the Hampden games at the last Euros, the Ukraine playoff and the England friendly (although I appreciate this wasn’t a competitive match) it felt like we were playing the occasion as much as the game and it got the better of us. Hopefully that’s the type of performance that’s behind us but I’d be wary of another big game disappointment.

I'd agree with that maybe for different reasons. Not just because of past games at Hampden, but because these things can happen. We might end up just having a stinker and you have to accept that's a possibility. To go into the game expecting us to play to our maximum is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

The intention to do well is the main thing and that's obviously there, but there are no guarantees apart from we'll try our best.