Injuries

[Molotov]

9 hours ago, SlayerX said:

 

I still haven't forgiven him for what he did against England. I don't condone booing players, but Gary McAllister didn't hear the end of having his penalty saved against England. Stuart Armstrong was instantly forgiven for his discrepancy.

Sorry my memory fails me again and again.

What did Armstrong do against England and which game?

ETA…I reckon you are going back to 2017 with this guy in the 2-2 game.

ffs.

Edited May 27 by Molotov

[Butters Scotch]

1 hour ago, allyo said:

You just giving me another chance to say "told you so"? 

After the season he's had, and given his age, I don't think there's any way Clarke would include him and then drop him. Could be very destructive. He may well be a doubt in terms of fitness, he probably is. But I think his place in the squad is secure.

Yeah can't see Doak being dropped now due to it potentially knocking his confidence and I think Clarke is well aware of how talented this kid is. He will want to see him regularly in training and figure out how to weaponise him effectively for future games. 

[Molotov]

Doak provides us with an unknown quantity in the squad. 

We have seen down the decades that Scotland managers remain extremely loyal to players who helped the country qualify but are out of form once the tournament arrives. 

I would take him as a terrific option to bring on late in games when explosive pace could provide a goal out of nothing.

 

Edited May 27 by Molotov

[Chripper]

1 hour ago, Molotov said:

Sorry my memory fails me again and again.

What did Armstrong do against England and which game?

ETA…I reckon you are going back to 2017 with this guy in the 2-2 game.

ffs.

Correct.

In fairness, it would've been a famous victory.

If you think I'm bad, some people still get angry over the Italian match in 2008 when Hutton got fouled and Italy inexplicably got a free kick from it and scored from it.

I'm over that one.

 

[TeeMan]

I think Doak will go, it doesn't make any sense for Clarke to call him up just to drop him. Not sure he will have any impact, or whether he will even get any time off the bench. I think folk are forgetting his last few appearances for Liverpool pre-injury where he was fairly anonymous in the Europa League. One for the future.

[Skyline Drifter]

8 minutes ago, TeeMan said:

I think Doak will go, it doesn't make any sense for Clarke to call him up just to drop him. Not sure he will have any impact, or whether he will even get any time off the bench. I think folk are forgetting his last few appearances for Liverpool pre-injury where he was fairly anonymous in the Europa League. One for the future.

I'm not saying he won't go, a lot depends on his level of fitness. I suspect he's been called up as much as anything to assess that. Probably also true of Jack and Souttar too, maybe even Hanley.

However, I'm not really getting the "doesn't make sense to call him up just to drop him" argument. In that respect it "doesn't really make sense" to do that to anyone. If that's the thinking then why name 28 in the first place and not just a 26. Someone's getting called up just to be dropped (in fact two people are unless Armstrong or someone else is ruled out with injury). What sense is there in calling up James Forrest just to drop him? Or Ryan Jack? Or John Souttar? Or whatever player you care to name. They're all in the same boat.

[TeeMan]

9 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I'm not saying he won't go, a lot depends on his level of fitness. I suspect he's been called up as much as anything to assess that. Probably also true of Jack and Souttar too, maybe even Hanley.

However, I'm not really getting the "doesn't make sense to call him up just to drop him" argument. In that respect it "doesn't really make sense" to do that to anyone. If that's the thinking then why name 28 in the first place and not just a 26. Someone's getting called up just to be dropped (in fact two people are unless Armstrong or someone else is ruled out with injury). What sense is there in calling up James Forrest just to drop him? Or Ryan Jack? Or John Souttar? Or whatever player you care to name. They're all in the same boat.

Doak really isn't in the same boat as the others though, he isn't there are an alternative or to prove his fitness, for me he is very much the "one for the future" pick. I think I would say the same with Forrest though you could say he is an alternative to Armstrong. I reckon a GK and a CB drop out, maybe Jack if he isn't fit.

Edited May 27 by TeeMan

[Skyline Drifter]

18 minutes ago, TeeMan said:

Doak really isn't in the same boat as the others though, he isn't there are an alternative or to prove his fitness, for me he is very much the "one for the future" pick. I think I would say the same with Forrest though you could say he is an alternative to Armstrong. I reckon a GK and a CB drop out, maybe Jack if he isn't fit.

I get that there are other factors with Doak but you don't think a player who has had major surgery and at time of selection a single day's training at first team level in five months never mind not played a game in that time is there with a view to "prove his fitness"?

If he turns up and it's clear he's not at the level required he'll be left out regardless of what his future is (or he should be). Again, as I said with respect to taking a 4th keeper, if you want to give him experience and take him along, let him take part in training and feel part of it that's fine. I see no point in taking a tourist in a squad spot though.

For what it's worth, I think both Forrest and Doak can be viewed as potential replacements for Armstrong albeit in naming Doak as a "Forward" in the squad announcement the SFA implied otherwise. If Armstrong makes it, as seems likely, then it may well be that Clarke will assess the pair (or even all three including Armstrong) to see what level they are at and leave the least productive one out.

Equally the likes of Gordon/Kelly, Souttar/Cooper/Hanley, Jack, maybe even Taylor remain also on the bubble.

[Butters Scotch]

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I get that there are other factors with Doak but you don't think a player who has had major surgery and at time of selection a single day's training at first team level in five months never mind not played a game in that time is there with a view to "prove his fitness"?

If he turns up and it's clear he's not at the level required he'll be left out regardless of what his future is (or he should be). Again, as I said with respect to taking a 4th keeper, if you want to give him experience and take him along, let him take part in training and feel part of it that's fine. I see no point in taking a tourist in a squad spot though.

For what it's worth, I think both Forrest and Doak can be viewed as potential replacements for Armstrong albeit in naming Doak as a "Forward" in the squad announcement the SFA implied otherwise. If Armstrong makes it, as seems likely, then it may well be that Clarke will assess the pair (or even all three including Armstrong) to see what level they are at and leave the least productive one out.

Equally the likes of Gordon/Kelly, Souttar/Cooper/Hanley, Jack, maybe even Taylor remain also on the bubble.

Clarke may of wanted to pick Doak before for the most recent friendlies but thought it was a little too soon to bring him back after his lengthy time off and earmarked him for the upcoming games to test him out, see if he can handle the pressure from the public etc. It could well be just a fitness thing but I'm sure the likes of Robo will be telling him how sharp he looks etc against world class players in training every day.

If he takes him along to the tourney then the friendlies will be a big indicator, if he only gets a few minutes then I can't see Clarke throwing him in at the euros unless we are getting spanked by a few goals. 

[Skyline Drifter]

39 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

Clarke may of wanted to pick Doak before for the most recent friendlies but thought it was a little too soon to bring him back after his lengthy time off and earmarked him for the upcoming games to test him out, see if he can handle the pressure from the public etc. It could well be just a fitness thing but I'm sure the likes of Robo will be telling him how sharp he looks etc against world class players in training every day.

Eh?

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea he's been training since March from. He's not been, he's done ONE DAY'S training with the Liverpool first team, a week past Saturday. He certainly wasn't training before the March friendlies so it wasn't "too soon" he physically wasn't available.

I don't disagree the friendlies will be an indicator though. If Doak isn't on the pitch for at least 30 mins + across the two games it's hard to see him going.

[Butters Scotch]

18 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Eh?

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea he's been training since March from. He's not been, he's done ONE DAY'S training with the Liverpool first team, a week past Saturday. He certainly wasn't training before the March friendlies so it wasn't "too soon" he physically wasn't available.

I don't disagree the friendlies will be an indicator though. If Doak isn't on the pitch for at least 30 mins + across the two games it's hard to see him going.

You're misreading what I've posted regarding the previous friendlies. 

If he was at a later stage In his recovery at that point then Clarke would of picked him then aswell if he had that option IMO. He's been running on grass since start of April so I'm sure Robertson would of had plenty of conversations regarding how he's been feeling etc especially in the past couple of weeks and seen him first hand

[Skyline Drifter]

25 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

You're misreading what I've posted regarding the previous friendlies. 

If he was at a later stage In his recovery at that point then Clarke would of picked him then aswell if he had that option IMO. He's been running on grass since start of April so I'm sure Robertson would of had plenty of conversations regarding how he's been feeling etc especially in the past couple of weeks and seen him first hand

Fair enough, I don't think your first post was very clear in that respect then. Again, I agree if he'd been available then he'd have been picked. But he wasn't.

I'm aware he was reported as running on grass at the start of April but so was Hickey and he hasn't made it. Light running on grass isn't proper training. Fact remains Doak hasn't even been training with the Liverpool first team yet other than a single ahead of their last game in which he was described as having "taken some part in training". I expect Clarke was very keen to take Doak but this still feels like a wee bit of a reach to me and a big couple of weeks for him to prove his fitness. Having said that, I presume Liverpool would have vetoed his selection if they didn't feel he had a chance as of course Brentford effectively did with Hickey. He must have at least a half decent chance of being fit enough.

I don't think you and I are disagreeing on this one.

[Skyline Drifter]

I see McTominay and Doak took no.part in training today but Armstrong and Souttar did a little separate session after the main group. 

John Carver ssying they are happy with everyone's progress. 

Interesting though that Doak still isnt fit enough to take full part. Seems Armstrong's on target to make it though.

[Butters Scotch]

9 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I see McTominay and Doak took no.part in training today but Armstrong and Souttar did a little separate session after the main group. 

John Carver ssying they are happy with everyone's progress. 

Interesting though that Doak still isnt fit enough to take full part. Seems Armstrong's on target to make it though.

That's disappointing about Doak, sounds like he's still got fitness concerns ffs

[2426255]

Just some quotes from the written press to add some detail to what @Skyline Drifter said.

Quote

I think everyone is on target to be fit and ready to go. Obviously they know their bodies, the medical people have been in constant touch with their clubs so I think everybody seems to be fine.

McKenna has play-offs with Copenhagen, Armstrong and Souttar worked when we finished with the fitness coach and the other guys just did a recovery session (McTominay, Taylor and Doak). I did not actually see them and I haven’t seen them, other than just in passing today. Stuart (Armstrong) in particular and Souttar did a good work out with the fitness coach. He (Doak) might not feature in the first friendly and he possibly could in the second one but we have to gauge it day by day and see where he is.

John Carver

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/12773512/ben-doak-injury-latest-john-carver-fearless-liverpool-winger/

Edited May 31 by 2426255

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

Just some quotes from the written press to add some detail to what @Skyline Drifter said.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/12773512/ben-doak-injury-latest-john-carver-fearless-liverpool-winger/

Disappointing if Doak wasn't to be available for Gibraltar.  That's going to be a training session with very little to learn.

[QoS99]

Dykes away to the hospital with a suspected broken ankle.

[BirdieMinusOne]

7 minutes ago, QoS99 said:

Dykes away to the hospital with a suspected broken ankle.

Where in the world is this getting reported, surely everyone would of latched onto this? 

[QoS99]

27 minutes ago, BirdieMinusOne said:

Where in the world is this getting reported, surely everyone would have latched onto this? 

Presume it will come out in the next day or two.

[PSJ.84]