Butters Scotch Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 (edited) 38 minutes ago, 2426255 said: His actions at Scotland were not fine, but potentially understandable. Perhaps a miscalculation on his part. We were close to qualification for the play-offs with a game away in Moldova to come (in which we sealed it). He may have wanted to put his best foot forward at Newcastle at the time. It's not like he was pictured jet skiing or on the piss. I understand it's taken as a slight on Scotland, but may not have been intended that way. The biggest unanswered question is why he was brought back a year after the incident, for two camps in a row. If there was a fallout and it hadn't been repaired then why do that? Especially in games where Clarke needed a good camp after the disappointment of the WC play-off. If it had been repaired then why does it affect things now? Anything is possible to fill the gaps because no-one knows on these board and so we get the usual speculation and supposition. Fraser was injured for a long time after the Nov-22 camp and that's when he has fallen out of the picture: In the first half of 2023 when Scotland were at a peak. He resurfaced at Southampton at the start of the 23/24 season and it's only been since Xmas that people have been talking about him and connecting dots all over the place. There's probably been another issue since after his last callup. It doesn't add up calling up the likes of Forrest and then Morgan but not Fraser. There is clearly something that Clarke doesn't like about Fraser but we'll never get the full truth of it, it happens all the time in football. Edited June 6 by Butters Scotch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: There's probably been another issue since after his latest callup. It doesn't add up calling up the likes of Forrest and then Morgan but not Fraser. There is clearly something that Clarke doesn't like about Fraser but we'll never get the full truth of it, it happens all the time in football. It's possible, but my point is that anything is possible because we don't have the full picture. No-one on these boards know that the fallout in Nov-21 is the reason why he isn't getting selected now. He was in the picture at the end of 2022 when he was playing for Newcastle. Out the picture when he wasn't playing at Newcastle in the first half of 2023 and out the picture when he was playing in the Championship on loan at Southampton (23/24). Those are the facts and you can weave whatever story around that you want. Maybe he's just not as good as he was before his injury or maybe it's because he's not playing in the Premier League or maybe others have pushed themselves ahead of him in the time he was out. Edited June 6 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Good to see Stevie listening to me again 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 1 hour ago, 2426255 said: It's possible, but my point is that anything is possible because we don't have the full picture. No-one on these boards know that the fallout in Nov-21 is the reason why he isn't getting selected now. He was in the picture at the end of 2022 when he was playing for Newcastle. Out the picture when he wasn't playing at Newcastle in the first half of 2023 and out the picture when he was playing in the Championship on loan at Southampton (23/24). Those are the facts and you can weave whatever story around that you want. Maybe he's just not as good as he was before his injury or maybe it's because he's not playing in the Premier League or maybe others have pushed themselves ahead of him in the time he was out. His injuries played a big part in not being selected in previous camps but he's back fit, getting a lot of minutes and he's certainly not any worse than Morgan and Forrest and playing at a higher level than both. He also plays multiple positions, adds pace to the team etc. I get the impression there is an issue regarding his attitude, maybe he's not a good personality to have around the squad etc but in terms of ability, he's one of our best winger type players available currently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 2 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: His injuries played a big part in not being selected in previous camps but he's back fit, getting a lot of minutes and he's certainly not any worse than Morgan and Forrest and playing at a higher level than both. He also plays multiple positions, adds pace to the team etc. I get the impression there is an issue regarding his attitude, maybe he's not a good personality to have around the squad etc but in terms of ability, he's one of our best winger type players available currently. That's fine. Absolutely no issue with you having that opinion - loads on here probably share it. As I said the evidence for that opinion isn't based on anything conclusive or strong information and there isn't a consistent timeline that supports it, but it is possible along with a range of other possibilities. We both like Ryan Fraser as a footballer so probably both of us would have had him in the squad if we were selecting it, but for whatever reason Clarke doesn't see it that way. It would be interesting if the media asked Clarke about it, but perhaps not in this camp. That's one of the points that I'd differ from Clarke, but obviously I don't think I know better than him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 12 minutes ago, 2426255 said: That's fine. Absolutely no issue with you having that opinion - loads on here probably share it. As I said the evidence for that opinion isn't based on anything conclusive or strong information and there isn't a consistent timeline that supports it, but it is possible along with a range of other possibilities. We both like Ryan Fraser as a footballer so probably both of us would have had him in the squad if we were selecting it, but for whatever reason Clarke doesn't see it that way. It would be interesting if the media asked Clarke about it, but perhaps not in this camp. That's one of the points that I'd differ from Clarke, but obviously I don't think I know better than him. Of course there is no conclusive evidence either way, Clarke hasn't been pressed on the issue and never gives much away anyway if he were to be asked. Fraser is keeping schtum and was very coy in his recent interview regarding Scotland but then his contract is up next year so will be whoring himself around to clubs for his next big contract so doesn't want to give off any bad impressions. Everyone can make their own opinions on the matter but anyone that has watched football long enough know that there is something not right between the pair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 20 minutes ago, SlayerX said: It's not official, but word is that Armstrong's quad injury has worsened. He might be the one outfield player who gets cut. If this is the case then I would say Morgan is more of a replacement for Armstrong than he would be for Doak so could we see another attacking midfielder in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: anyone that has watched football long enough know that there is something not right between the pair. That's what I mean, that's not a fair thing to say. I see a lot of folk forming opinions on what they can see and fill in the blanks however they want. I saw lots of people saying Clarke doesn't rate the MLS and that's why he didn't call up Gauld. We know now he has called up Lewis Morgan and as you posted elsewhere part of the reason for not selecting him might have been a persistent injury that had been irritating him, so we have more of that picture and that changes the perception back to what Clarke said about it being a hard place in the team for Gauld to break into rather than him being anti-MLS. There's the truth, what we can see, what we can't see and it's all relevant. Edited June 6 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 8 minutes ago, 2426255 said: That's what I mean, that's not a fair thing to say. I see a lot of folk forming opinions on what they can see and fill in the blanks however they want. I saw lots of people saying Clarke doesn't rate the MLS and that's why he didn't call up Gauld. We know now he has called up Lewis Morgan and as you posted elsewhere part of the reason for not selecting him might have been a persistent injury that had been irritating him, so we have more of that picture and that changes the view. There's the truth, what we can see and what we can't see and it's all relevant. That's fine if you only believe what you see or hear from the horses mouth essentially, I ain't going to go back and forth on this with you as it will get tedious very quickly as it typically does. Plenty of other quality nations better than Scotland pick players from the MLS so I personally didn't believe the notion he didn't like the league. I think I was more annoyed that he didn't pick much needed good quality attacking options like a Gauld, Morgan, etc and give them more of a chance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 30 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: If this is the case then I would say Morgan is more of a replacement for Armstrong than he would be for Doak so could we see another attacking midfielder in? Steve Clarke in his press conference there confirms that Armstrong is fine. Hopefully signed off soon to return to full training. As I said earlier I didn’t see him at training today, however, the news seems to be positive. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: That's fine if you only believe what you see or hear from the horses mouth essentially It's not that. It's that I accept that there may be reasons other than just connecting two dots because that's all the information you can see. The Armstrong information above is another example of that. You can't see the full picture, so your basis for opinion could be flawed. Edited June 6 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Is it not simply a case of Fraser acting like an arse a while back and making it clear playing for Scotland was not a priority nor even a serious consideration. He could turn into prime Messi. But why would you want that type of character / attitude in a team prior to such an important tournament. I am on Clarkes side on this. Of course don't know the full facts but I am sure if he behaved like he wanted to be part of the Scotland set up and made every effort to keep onside with the Manager there is no doubt he would form part of a 26 man squad. I doubt he cares either way. And I am glad he is sitting at home watching on TV (he probably wont) despite being a better player than many going to Germany. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: Of course there is no conclusive evidence either way, Clarke hasn't been pressed on the issue and never gives much away anyway if he were to be asked. Clarke did address it in the press and said the matter was settled in 2022 before and after he was called back up in September 2022. You simply don't believe what he said. He's been asked and he's answered, you just don't accept it. I have quote as you know if you want to see them again. Clarke demonstrated through his words and his actions that the issue was resolved at that time. Edited June 6 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 11 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Clarke did address it in the press and said the matter was settled in 2022 before and after he was called back up in September 2022. You simply don't believe what he said. He's been asked and he's answered, you just don't accept it. I have quote as you know if you want to see them again. Clarke demonstrated through his words and his actions that the issue was resolved at that time. Two years ago... and for the record, I did believe what he said at the time... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 Quick update on the injuries. No mention of John Souttar for obvious reasons. Quote Scott (McTominay) is fine. He trained today. That was the first time he’s trained since he had that kick on the ankle in the FA Cup final for Man United. He won’t start against Finland, but he will come on to the pitch at some stage. He’ll be fine, 100 per cent. He’s a Rolls-Royce. Liam (Cooper) is fine. He trained this morning. It was just a bang on the knee. Those can obviously be painful, but it was nothing more serious than that. When he picked up the knock the other night, I made sure we took him off straight away. We didn’t take any risks. Liam is a tough guy, he’ll be fine. With Stuart (Armstrong), he’s in the very last stage of his rehab. We expect he’ll get the all-clear to start training on Monday when we’re in Germany. If everything goes according to plan, and with the final checks from the medics, Stuart should be available for the Germany game as well, albeit probably not to start. Steve Clarke https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/24371885.scotland-manager-prospect-scott-mctominay-facing-germany/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Jim McLean Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 So no minutes for McT or Armstrong in either friendlies. I’m assuming they’ll be fit for the Germany game but is anyone else concerned about them. Not sure if Clarke has any said anything about why they didn’t play… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 10 minutes ago, Angry Jim McLean said: So no minutes for McT or Armstrong in either friendlies. I’m assuming they’ll be fit for the Germany game but is anyone else concerned about them. Not sure if Clarke has any said anything about why they didn’t play… No I'm quite happy McTominay didn't play tbh. A cameo against Finland is an unnecessary risk. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Finnerty Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Angry Jim McLean said: So no minutes for McT or Armstrong in either friendlies. I’m assuming they’ll be fit for the Germany game but is anyone else concerned about them. Not sure if Clarke has any said anything about why they didn’t play… Clarke said at the end of his post-match press conference that McTominay is fine and ready to play in the Germany game. Edited June 8 by Kevin Finnerty 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 2 minutes ago, Kevin Finnerty said: Clarke said at the end of his post-match press conference that McTominay is fine and ready to play in the Germany game. He also said he would get on as a sub against Finland or something along those lines but I may be wrong. The cynic in me is that he's not quite ready and is trying to keep the Germans guessing 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I am definitely wondering if we'll only see McTominay as a sub against Germany, which would at least solve the Gilmour v Christie dilemma. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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