Saints v Hearts, Wednesday 7th February

[Theyellowbox]

25 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

The ref was quite clearly waiting to see what the offside decision was. 

VAR never told him to give it ffs. He's realised it was off and he should've booked him.

I dint think he can book him after the VAR review though. He either needed to book him before and it is upgraded to a red or if it was offside the yellow would still stand.

He cannot wait until the VAR check is done to decide if it is yellow or red. I agree if the ref could, a yellow for essentially booting the player after the move had ended would be right, just that he couldn't do what he actually did. Ironically there was a clear offside in the first half, the linesman didn't flag, the game went on and the saints player got a yellow.

The fact no one has a clue really as to what was correct shows how much of a farce it is. VAR isn't the problem, it's how it's used. 

 

[GorbalsMags]

5 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

I dint think he can book him after the VAR review though. He either needed to book him before and it is upgraded to a red or if it was offside the yellow would still stand.

He cannot wait until the VAR check is done to decide if it is yellow or red. I agree if the ref could, a yellow for essentially booting the player after the move had ended would be right, just that he couldn't do what he actually did. Ironically there was a clear offside in the first half, the linesman didn't flag, the game went on and the saints player got a yellow.

The fact no one has a clue really as to what was correct shows how much of a farce it is. VAR isn't the problem, it's how it's used. 

 

Bingo

[SEETHING]

Next.

[RandomGuy.]

7 hours ago, Tony Wonder said:

That was negative even for him. Marginally less so as it opened up and the game proceeded but for a a long part it was really deep, no space at all to play in, little attempt to hit on the counter.

Hes spoken about thinking we need to play 3 at the back and try to protect the defence as our CB options all lack pace, which is why we sit so deep.

Things get compounded when he doesnt play anyone with pace out wide and those out wide cant take people on.

Things are even more compounded by the fact he flat out refuses to drop Kucheriavyi, who contributes nothing. He also wants to play Connor Smith every game, but needs to play Carey every game. But then he also has to play a 4th midfielder because none of them can defend, so before youre even thinking of how to play we're already at 5-4-1 as the shape, really, with a midfield full of players who want to play short simple passes backwards or sideways (other than Carey). Its why Phillips as been so important, as he takes people on in there in our own half, and presumably trying to replicate that is why it's Carey whos back there, which means we miss him in the final third.

They then seem to massively overthink things and want players who can all rotate positions with each other. Which is why, considering Franczak has mostly played RWB this season, we effectively played 6 defenders last night (Franczak, Olufunwa, McGowan, Considine, Robinson, Gallacher).

It'll get us points v the bottom half but it really needs to be better next season.

[VincentGuerin]

6 hours ago, Tony Wonder said:

Seeing the St Johnstone handball penalty shout back. There have been penalties given for that.  The arm is not out quite as far as the Dundee player on Saturday, but pretty similar in style.  No consistency at all from refs on what is and isn't. 

I think where it's right is that the refs decision isn't obviously wrong, but definitely seen ones like that given this season.

Thought it was the same as our penalty at Dens in that whatever call the ref made would have been stuck with. Take the breakand move on.

A deserved win overall. Not much in the game, but we looked the more likely side. The highlights err... highlighted that we were much more dangerous than St Johnstone were. Got away with one for the handball though.

[VincentGuerin]

15 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Hes spoken about thinking we need to play 3 at the back and try to protect the defence as our CB options all lack pace, which is why we sit so deep.

Things get compounded when he doesnt play anyone with pace out wide and those out wide cant take people on.

Things are even more compounded by the fact he flat out refuses to drop Kucheriavyi, who contributes nothing. He also wants to play Connor Smith every game, but needs to play Carey every game. But then he also has to play a 4th midfielder because none of them can defend, so before youre even thinking of how to play we're already at 5-4-1 as the shape, really, with a midfield full of players who want to play short simple passes backwards or sideways (other than Carey). Its why Phillips as been so important, as he takes people on in there in our own half, and presumably trying to replicate that is why it's Carey whos back there, which means we miss him in the final third.

They then seem to massively overthink things and want players who can all rotate positions with each other. Which is why, considering Franczak has mostly played RWB this season, we effectively played 6 defenders last night (Franczak, Olufunwa, McGowan, Considine, Robinson, Gallacher).

It'll get us points v the bottom half but it really needs to be better next season.

I think what St Johnstone are getting from Levein is what most folk expected. Grim to watch, but it'll stop you getting pumped every week.

Not countering any of the criticisms you or other St Johnstone fans make, but I think the improvement since he came in justifies the approach and if St Johnstone are rebuilding next summer from the position of being in the Premiership, then he's done his job. Basiclly, this is what you signed up for and what you needed. Where you go from the summer is a different issue.

How long is his deal?

Edited February 8 by VincentGuerin

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I think what St Johnstone are getting from Levein is what most folk expected. Grim to watch, but it'll stop you getting pumped every week.

Not countering any of the criticisms you or other St Johnstone fans make, but I think the improvement since he came in justifies the approach and if St Johnstone are rebuilding next summer from the position of being in the Premiership, then he's done his job. Basiclly, this is what you signed up for and what you needed. Where you go from the summer is a different issue.

How long is his deal?

3 years.

General consensus is he plans to move to a DOF role at some point during that and Andy Kirk will become manager. That's just speculation though.

His signings so far have made sense, to me, so happy enough to see how they do in the Summer. Think we'll be in double figures for departures and big wages like Ali Crawford will finally be off the books too. 

[Navallion]

Did Levein play a striker this game?

[Galajambo]

The fermers never laid a glove on us apart from one header cleared off the line, it was a controlled performance for the most part, and Levein's tactics are still eye bleedingly bad. Shanks is something else though 

[Kyle Reese]

10 hours ago, GorbalsMags said:

Very few players I can remember when you are genuinely feart of them scoring every time they get the ball (except for penalties :P)

Different sort of player, and I am not comparing styles or ability, merely referencing what you said, but I was always of the opinion that we had to score at least twice to beat Celtic when Larsson played for them 

[Sortmeout]

It’s turning into a great season for the Jambos. To be closer to second than fourth at this stage is a solid return.

Had my doubts about Naismith but he is doing well currently.

[GorbalsMags]

3 hours ago, Kyle Reese said:

Different sort of player, and I am not comparing styles or ability, merely referencing what you said, but I was always of the opinion that we had to score at least twice to beat Celtic when Larsson played for them 

Yeah from the start of the game for the full 90 minutes you just shit yersel as soon as the ball goes near him. He's a class apart.

3 hours ago, Galajambo said:

The fermers never laid a glove on us apart from one header cleared off the line, it was a controlled performance for the most part, and Levein's tactics are still eye bleedingly bad. Shanks is something else though 

So apart from the penalty shout and the goal cleared off the line, then?

4 hours ago, Navallion said:

Did Levein play a striker this game?

He played 3, would you believe!

6 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

3 years.

General consensus is he plans to move to a DOF role at some point during that and Andy Kirk will become manager. That's just speculation though.

His signings so far have made sense, to me, so happy enough to see how they do in the Summer. Think we'll be in double figures for departures and big wages like Ali Crawford will finally be off the books too. 

Yeah this summer will finally see most of the Davidson dross out the door and the chance for a proper rebuild, we just have to survive that long.

[Galajambo]

36 minutes ago, GorbalsMags said:

Yeah from the start of the game for the full 90 minutes you just shit yersel as soon as the ball goes near him. He's a class apart.

So apart from the penalty shout and the goal cleared off the line, then?

He played 3, would you believe!

Yeah this summer will finally see most of the Davidson dross out the door and the chance for a proper rebuild, we just have to survive that long.

If you want to defend that type of football then knock yourself out pal, we saw it long enough at Tynecastle and it's eye bleedingly piss poor, my optician was sending my bills to Tynecastle for the amount of times he made me eyes bleed! 

[GorbalsMags]

3 minutes ago, Galajambo said:

If you want to defend that type of football then knock yourself out pal, we saw it long enough at Tynecastle and it's eye bleedingly piss poor, my optician was sending my bills to Tynecastle for the amount of times he made me eyes bleed! 

We've been on a rebuild job for 3 years, sometimes you've got to take yer medicine!

[Galajambo]

1 minute ago, GorbalsMags said:

We've been on a rebuild job for 3 years, sometimes you've got to take yer medicine!

I've no doubt he'll keep you up but it won't be pretty, but why should you really care about that tbh? 

 

Anyway, was never a penalty, it hit the top of his arm and you can't count that as a chance, I'm not having it  

[GorbalsMags]

2 minutes ago, Galajambo said:

I've no doubt he'll keep you up but it won't be pretty, but why should you really care about that tbh? 

 

Anyway, was never a penalty, it hit the top of his arm and you can't count that as a chance, I'm not having it  

Well exactly brer. Get to summer, offload the Davidson signings, dust oursels doon, and be ready for the league cup next year.

 

Fwiw for me it fell firmly in "seen them given" territory. If that's a player in a stripy green kit kicking the ball and calling for the pen it's given all day, we all know that.

[Galajambo]

20 minutes ago, GorbalsMags said:

Well exactly brer. Get to summer, offload the Davidson signings, dust oursels doon, and be ready for the league cup next year.

 

Fwiw for me it fell firmly in "seen them given" territory. If that's a player in a stripy green kit kicking the ball and calling for the pen it's given all day, we all know that.

Or their blue arse cheek mate, for sure! 

[Fife Saint]

We might be utterly shite on the park but I'm pleased with the quiet dignity we have shown in not greeting with that penalty shout. Some others would do well to take note.

[DC92]

21 hours ago, Tony Wonder said:

Seeing the St Johnstone handball penalty shout back. There have been penalties given for that.  The arm is not out quite as far as the Dundee player on Saturday, but pretty similar in style.  No consistency at all from refs on what is and isn't. 

I think where it's right is that the refs decision isn't obviously wrong, but definitely seen ones like that given this season.

 

14 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

Thought it was the same as our penalty at Dens in that whatever call the ref made would have been stuck with. Take the breakand move on.

A deserved win overall. Not much in the game, but we looked the more likely side. The highlights err... highlighted that we were much more dangerous than St Johnstone were. Got away with one for the handball though.

I don't think it was that similar to the Dundee one. It hits Cochrane on the back of the elbow with his arm close to his body and his forearm pointed towards the goal. For the Dundee one, the body shape is similar, but he's rotated 90 degrees in a way that blocks more of the goal, and it actually hits his hand.

The Dundee one wasn't a penalty imo but last night's was nowhere near.

[RandomGuy.]

Youre view on whether its a penalty or not hinges on who you support