FairWeatherFan Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, MrFizz said: What are the age restrictions for the West Dev leagues? Our SoSL team seems to have several players 27-30yrs old. Something like u20 with overage players getting 5x appearances a season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) 29 minutes ago, CowdenPhil said: Average age of player in Scottish top flight is 27, which is in top 10 leagues in Europe for oldest average age. See on CIES football stats website. To me a factor in this is the smaller team leagues. So top flight b teams despite being around for several years have had little positive impact for youth development This is overly simplistic. Many other leagues throughout Europe have leagues the same size or smaller than ours, including Slovenia (10), Finland (12) and Austria (12) who are all in the youngest 5. Meanwhile, only Hungary have an average age older than us without also having a larger league. This is all based on this: https://football-observatory.com/Tool-Demography A much, much bigger issue is the drain of young talent to England before they ever get a chance to make their mark in Scottish football. Edit: the reason why B teams haven’t had an impact on youth development is because they’re a fucking dreadful idea, not anything to do with the league structure. Edited May 21 by oneteaminglasgow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde01 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Surely it’s time to get the b-teams out of the challenge cup too. Some of the smaller premier league teams aren’t even able to field a side and end up withdrawing. Most of the others get whipped off highland and lowland league sides. The only b-teams that generally progress are the old firm and this causes problems as the games are played during international weekends when they can’t field a team due to youth internationals. There is no way you can convince me that playing a couple of matches per season in this competition has any meaningful impact on player development. The only purpose has seemingly been to make a precedent for them being in the lowland league. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde01 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 7 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: Pretty sure this is wrong. Dalbeattie went down to the South League and it was made clear this season that regardless of their preference, Gretna would be going to the South League if they went down too (in the end they didn't). Surely letting threave defect to the WoS when geographically they should have been SoS has sunk that argument? It’s ridiculous they were allowed to jump ship so why shouldn’t other teams now have a choice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigM84 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 I'm new to adding any comments to these chats even though am addament reader of pie & bovril.. I have not read all the chat so forgive me if what am about to say has been says and don't take offence to this opinion. But having played and coached in the lowland league a think alot of comments are abiit negative. Some of these club owners put alot of money and resources to try and get promotion knowing that chances of promotion are very very slim. A know a former spfl clubs budget one season was the same as the top sides in league 1 that season and they didn't get near promotion.. why can't we offer a better pathway for these clubs who show more ambition than some of the spfl teams. The proof has been showing in the teams who have come up they have all went up division other than Spartans who were a bawhair away from going up. The reason LL accepted "B" teams was they got dangled a carrot that was too good to turn down. A personally don't see issue of letting B teams into league cause evidence hss shown so far that they have done ok in LL but nothing else.. I would personally change whole set uo of scottish football but make league 2 a 22 team league.. I would reply this in another chat but make 2x proffesional leagues at top of maybe 14 and a 12. Leaving 16 from current set up winners of LL and HL and bring in 4x b teams and make them pay initial fee to play In league and if they get promoted to go no higher than next league up. They are not allowed in the cup comps. Then end of season 4 teams to be relegated to z regions based on their locations and introduce playoffs through HL and LL... what you think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 3 minutes ago, BigM84 said: I'm new to adding any comments to these chats even though am addament reader of pie & bovril.. I have not read all the chat so forgive me if what am about to say has been says and don't take offence to this opinion. But having played and coached in the lowland league a think alot of comments are abiit negative. Some of these club owners put alot of money and resources to try and get promotion knowing that chances of promotion are very very slim. A know a former spfl clubs budget one season was the same as the top sides in league 1 that season and they didn't get near promotion.. why can't we offer a better pathway for these clubs who show more ambition than some of the spfl teams. The proof has been showing in the teams who have come up they have all went up division other than Spartans who were a bawhair away from going up. The reason LL accepted "B" teams was they got dangled a carrot that was too good to turn down. A personally don't see issue of letting B teams into league cause evidence hss shown so far that they have done ok in LL but nothing else.. I would personally change whole set uo of scottish football but make league 2 a 22 team league.. I would reply this in another chat but make 2x proffesional leagues at top of maybe 14 and a 12. Leaving 16 from current set up winners of LL and HL and bring in 4x b teams and make them pay initial fee to play In league and if they get promoted to go no higher than next league up. They are not allowed in the cup comps. Then end of season 4 teams to be relegated to z regions based on their locations and introduce playoffs through HL and LL... what you think? Not keen on that, tbh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigM84 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Fair enough mate only an opinion, just to let you know am an Albion Rovers fan so this is not coming from a snobby supporter in top divisions lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowdenPhil Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 33 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: This is overly simplistic. Many other leagues throughout Europe have leagues the same size or smaller than ours, including Slovenia (10), Finland (12) and Austria (12) who are all in the youngest 5. Meanwhile, only Hungary have an average age older than us without also having a larger league. This is all based on this: https://football-observatory.com/Tool-Demography A much, much bigger issue is the drain of young talent to England before they ever get a chance to make their mark in Scottish football. Edit: the reason why B teams haven’t had an impact on youth development is because they’re a fucking dreadful idea, not anything to do with the league structure. I agree talent drain south is a major factor as is bigger SPFL clubs harvesting young players with no clear pathways to 1st team. To me and it is only my opinion smaller leagues impedes development of players because I feel managers become risk averse. Having bigger leagues would be a massive positive to our game imho. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde01 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 One of the biggest problems we have in Scottish football is the obsession for every match to ‘mean something’. It’s holding back youth development as just about every premier league side is packed with poor foreigners or absolute jobbers from the lower reaches of the English leagues. The percentage of Scottish players playing in our top flight should be way higher. The championship is an unstable environment too as the risk of going down to league 1 is a constant pressure and a real problem for full time sides. The leagues are also far too small. Ideally League 1 and 2 should be knocked together but then you lose the opportunity to win league 2 (the pinnacle of achievement for some clubs ). Personally I would find a larger league playing each team twice much more attractive than playing the same teams over and over again. If you get drawn in the same league cup group and both make playoffs you could play the same team at least 7 times in a single season. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Clyde01 said: Surely letting threave defect to the WoS when geographically they should have been SoS has sunk that argument? It’s ridiculous they were allowed to jump ship so why shouldn’t other teams now have a choice. Nope. Can't pick and chose where you get relegated to. Just as when Brechin were denied permission to go to Lowland League. Threave were allowed to switch, as indeed Gretna would be as far as I know, but they'd start at the bottom of the West League, not the top division of it. Edited May 21 by Skyline Drifter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not man of the match Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: Nope. Can't pick and chose where you get relegated to. Just as when Brechin were denied permission to go to Lowland League. Threave were allowed to switch, as indeed Gretna would be as far as I know, but they'd start at the bottom of the West League, not the top division of it. Was that not changed the following season, to allow clubs to pick? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Just now, not man of the match said: Was that not changed the following season, to allow clubs to pick? Not as far as I am aware, if anything the stance hardened. You got a source for something different? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishLoon Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Where on the map do we think the line between highland and lowland league is/should be? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 10 minutes ago, not man of the match said: Was that not changed the following season, to allow clubs to pick? Yes, the previous line level with the River Tay was abolished. AFAIK there is NO agreed boundary between the SOS and WOS. Indeed, the only boundary I'm aware of is between the EOS and WOS. There may also be one between the North and Midland Juniors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde01 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 21 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: Nope. Can't pick and chose where you get relegated to. Just as when Brechin were denied permission to go to Lowland League. Threave were allowed to switch, as indeed Gretna would be as far as I know, but they'd start at the bottom of the West League, not the top division of it. The whole SoS league should join at the bottom of the WoS IMO. Perhaps having two regionalised divisions at the bottom tier to keep the SoS teams together. That’s the level most of them belong at and the top 3 or 4 could progress as Threave have attempted to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 4 minutes ago, Stag Nation said: Yes, the previous line level with the River Tay was abolished. AFAIK there is NO agreed boundary between the SOS and WOS. Indeed, the only boundary I'm aware of is between the EOS and WOS. There may also be one between the North and Midland Juniors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishLoon Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Stag Nation said: Yes, the previous line level with the River Tay was abolished. AFAIK there is NO agreed boundary between the SOS and WOS. Indeed, the only boundary I'm aware of is between the EOS and WOS. There may also be one between the North and Midland Juniors. Montrose roselea moved to the midland last year so that might be the indication of everywhere north of Angus is north region league/north Caledonian. Edited May 21 by ScottishLoon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 14 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: Not as far as I am aware, if anything the stance hardened. You got a source for something different? There's no agreed boundary with the rest of the leagues and South of Scotland. The West has some terms in their rules that would bar an example like Glasgow Wellington going South winning promotion then relegated back to the West. There's a discussion to be had with no set rule. Doesn't mean Stranraer or another would get what they want as it comes down to the leagues and what they'd be willing to accept. Its at least another year from having to be more than a hypothetical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishLoon Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Going back to every club north of the Tay seems like the best guide for highland/lowland league to me. At the same time though a part of me would find it hilarious if for example Stranraer got relegated and were able to choose highland league if they wanted and made all the highland clubs travel down, everyone except maybe Brechin would be raging. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairn Terrier Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 4 hours ago, Burnieman said: Not sure anyone beats Stranraer with this, I'm not sure too many are particularly bothered about them being in the SoS. You’ve never been to Stranraer then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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